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CMYK
#44 (173) z 9-115.XI, 2011 weli z gamodis oTxSabaTobiT z
www.saertogazeti.net; e-mail: [email protected]
z fasi 1 lari
`ar megona, rom
miliarderi gavxdebodi~
biZina
ivaniSvili:
biZina ivaniSvilis pirveli interviu,
romelic 2005 wels
gazeT `vedomostSi~ daibeWda.
intervius sruli teqsti
qarTul enaze qveyndeba pirvelad.
`bednieri var, rom sufTa warsuli maqvs da garwmunebT, xelisuflebis ideologebs TavianTi mcdelobani
sikeTes ver moutans. mudmivad iseT gvarebs atrialeben, romelic cnobili araa saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis. mudmivad cdiloben, xalxs eWvi gauCinon Cemze.
erTaderT interviuSi, romelic gazeT `vedomosts~ miveci, yvela es gvaria dasaxelebuli da pasuxic iqvea gacemuli. es ambavi karga xania warsuls Cahbarda. Jurnalistebma maSin verc erTi Savi xazi ver mipoves. erTi Tve ar
beWdavdnen Cems intervius. ver warmoedginaT, rom ruseTSi SeiZleboda aseTi kaci yofiliyo, Tanac qarTuli gvariT. rogorc aq ar vCndebodi, ufro metad ar vCandi ruseTSi. didxans elodnen Cem gamoCenas, amis Semdgom yvela
sainformacio saSualebam gaaSuqa es interviu, grami eWvic ki aravis Seutania Cems naTqvamSi, radgan interviuSi
imdenad gulwrfelad maqvs pasuxebi gacemuli, eWvis natamalic ki ar rCeboda.~
‹
es interviu biZina ivaniSvilis oponentebs
erTxel da samudamod daukargavs usafuZvlo
braldebebis da samarcxvino Woraobis xasiaTs
2 saerTo gazeTi
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
redaqtoris sveti
or kviraSi
axali samoqalaqo moZraoba dafuZndeba,
Tumca es moZraoba faqtobrivad ukve dafuZnebulia
da, Tamamad SeiZleba iTqvas,
misi damfuZnebeli, pirvel
yovlisa, qarTveli xalxia.
bevri saxalxo moZraoba gvinaxavs, Tumca saxelis miuxedavad, am moZraobebs moZraoba
uWirdaT da saxeli saxalxoc
ise markis asawevad hqondaT
miwebebuli, Torem iq xalxi
aravis unaxavs.
samoqalaqo moZraoba `qarTuli ocneba~ albaT is erTaderTi bednieri gamonaklisi
iqneba qarTul sinamdvileSi,
romelic uamrav adamians gaaerTianebs erTi droSis qveS da
safuZvels daudebs samoqalaqo sazogadoebis Camoyalibebas saqarTveloSi.
`zogi Wiri margebeliao~,
naTqvamia.
`Wiri~, romlis gamoc biZina
ivaniSvils saqarTvelos moqalaqeoba Seuwyvites, gaxda imis
winapiroba, rom ver Seiqmna kidev erTi axali politikuri
organizacia, samagierod dafuZnda samoqalaqo moZraoba,
rac mocemul situaciaSi gacilebiT efeqturi da masStaburi SeiZleba aRmoCndes, vidre
politikuri partia.
darwmunebuli var, `qarTuli ocneba~ gaxdeba yvelaze
mravalricxovani, yvelaze mobiluri da organizebuli Zala, romelic arsebul realobas ukeTesobisken Secvlis da
sxvadasxva wvril-wvril partiul Tu arasamTavrobo organizaciebSi daqsaqsul da dafantul qarTvel xalxs erT
monoliTur sxeulad Sekravs.
maS ase, asparezze gamodis
misi udidebulesoba qarTveli
xalxi, rac imas niSnavs, rom
droa viRac-viRaceebma Cemodnebis Calageba daiwyon...
vaxtang xarCilava
stummrebi - zaza firaliSvili (filosofosi); lela iakobaSvili (kulturologi)
wammyvani - nino fir
rcxalava
ukanasknel per
riodSi sazogadoeba, miuxefilia gansxvavebuli
davad immisa, romm dayof
mosazr
rebebis da or
rientaciebis jguf
febad, rarSemmo gaer
rTianebis
Rac er
rTi mTlianis gar
sur
rvils gammoTqqvamms...
rammdenad da rogor
r moaxer
rxa qar
rTulmma
sazogadoebamm sammoqqalaqqo sazogadoebad Camoylibebis for
rmir
reba mas Semmdeg, rac
for
rma ,
mtkivneulad ganicada yvela is ref
rommelic gammowveulia saor
rientacio veqqtorebis cvlilebiT; Cveni qveynisTvis Cr
rdiloeTidan
dasavleTisaken Sebr
runeba sakmaod mtkivneuli aRmmoCnda.
donors ar esmis, rom kulturas Tavisi
metyveleba, lingvistika aqvs da garkveuli
kvlevebi, mignebebi Tu WeSmaritebebis produqtebi masTan misTvis gasageb enaze unda
iqnes mitanili, raTa maTi sruli aRqma moxdes. amaze arasamTavrobo seqtori iSviaTad
Tu zrunavs. bevri maTgani sakmaod seriozuli qonebis mepatrone gaxda donori organizaciebis wyalobiT, magram maT Sesaxeb mxolod viwro wrem icis da Sesabamisad, isini
araviTar rols ar TamaSoben ubralo adamianisTvis!
lela iakobaSvili _ metsac vityvi... esaa seqta! seqta, Tavisi metyvelebis
wamyvani:- qarTuli sazogadoeba 20
welia yalibdeba, garkveuli etapebi gaiara,
Tumca saboloo formirebisaTvis, rasac samoqalaqo sazogadoeba hqvia, albaT Zalian
bevria gasavleli... batono zaza, rogor gaigo Cveulebrivma rigiTma qarTvelma demokratia?
zaza firaliSvili - rom giTxraT,
rom Cven gvesmis, Tu ra aris demokratia,
Sors viqnebi simarTlisagan! es iseTi Tvisebaa, romelsac mopoveba sWirdeba da romelic
erTxel mopovebis Semdeg samudamod geqneba!
maprovocirebeli da makonstruirebelia da
maT Soris damlagebelia, is
media sad aris?... media aRar
aris, ase vityodi da is, rom axali media gaCndes Cems socialur
organizmSi, niSnavs, rom qarTul elitas, aramxolod politikurs, gauCndes saTqmeli, romelic ar aqvs!
_ batono zaza, ra aris mizezi, rom
dRes gvaqvs is ori media da mesame, romelic
sasurvelia, jer ar Cans...
zaza firaliSvili _ 90-ian
wlebSi gabatonda tendencia, romelic
dRes mTel Cvens media-sivrces flobs.
anu politikosebma igrZnes , Tu rogori
Zala iyo media da am sivrcis daufleba
daiwyes da mediamac ikisra propagandituli funqcia. Tundac imitom, rom is
sxvagvarad ver irCens Tavs. saSualo yoveldRiur adamians moTxovnileba aqvs
mkveTri, yviTeli informaciisken da mediam SesTavaza yviTeli informacia; Sesabamisad, mas uyalibdeba yviTeli gemovneba
da yalibdeba raRac Caketili wre, sadac
media ver grZnobs Tavis pasuxismgeblobas, rom man SeiZleba Camoayalibos sazogadoeba, romelic Tavisi azrovnebis kulturiT iqneba yviTeli. aq ukve Zalin mZime pasuxismgebloba ekisrebaT Cvens Jurnalistebs...
Caivlis is, rac gvawuxebs
da darCeba is, rac saWiroa!
amitom saubari, rom Cven raRac momentidan
demokratiulebi varT an viqnebiT, ar SeiZleba! misi mopoveba sakmarisad rTuli gaxlavT; is seroizul istoriul praqtikas
moiTxovs; moiTxovs Tanaarsebobisa da TanamSromlobis kulturis SemuSavebas sazogadoebaSi, rac Cven gvaklia!
lela iakobiSvili - TavisTavad, sadac demokratia daibada saberZneTSi, iq polisebis kultura ukve arsebobda! es TavisTavad, qalaquri cxovrebis kulturaa... misi
meore versia ukve evropaSi ganxorcielda,
sadac qalaqebi Sedga, rogorc industriulkulturuli centrebi! da adamianebi Tavisi
interaqciebiT qalaquri komunikaciebis sqemaSi iyo CarTuli! qalaqs hqonda erTiani informaciuli veli, romelic struqturirdeboda Tavisi samarTliT, urTierTobebis
formatebiT, arqiteqturiT, socialuri fenebiT da a. S.
ai, es epoqa qarTvelebs ar gagvivlia! ase
vTqvaT, Cven qalaqSi Camogvasaxles, industrias gvaziares... qalaqi Tavisi topologiuri sivrciT, Sinagani dinamizmiT, struqturiT, kulturis garsiT, es evropisTvisac
gviani Sua saukuneebis Semdeg daiwyo, burJuaziis dabadebis Semdeg! burJuazia CvenTan
dRes ibadeba. amitom, sworad gamigeT, saidan,
rogor SemiZlia samoqalaqo interaqciebSi
CaverTo, rodesac me rom moqalaqe gavmxdariyavi, amis moZalade bolSevizmi iyo! amitom gardatexis asaki am mimarTulebiT Cven
ar gagvivlia! dResac postindustriul xanaSi procesebi Zaladobrivi mgonia...
dasavleTSi SeimCneva deurbanizaciis
swrafi tempi, xolo saqarTvelos centralur qalaqebSi urbanizaciis stiqiuri procesia! anu is socialuri sivrceebi, romlebic Tavis droze vaWrobas mohyva evropaSi,
Cvens Tvalwin daiwyo saqarTveloSi. aq jerjerobiT eliavasa da lilos bazroba aris
e.w. burJuaziuli interaqcia!
- klasikuri gagebiT, samoqalaqo sazogadoeba Tavis TavSi moiazrebs politikur
partiebs, arasamTavrobo seqtors da medias!
b-nno zaza, ramdenad erTnairad viTardeba es
sami sfero bolo 20 wlis ganmavlobaSi da
ramdenad SeaqvT sakuTari wvlili demokratiuli procesis ganviTarebaSi?
zaza firaliSvili _ samwuxaroa,
magram arasamTavrobo seqtori garkveulwilad iqca biznesad. unda airCion is lingvistika, romliTac unda isaubron saerTaSoriso donorebTan da Semdeg rom moaxdinon
Targmani rigiTi moqalaqis enaze, es
ar
aRelvebT da arc ainteresebT! saerTaSoriso
`saerTo gazeTi~
mTavari redaqtori: vaxtang xarCilava
gamomcemeli: Sps sagamomcemlo centri `saerTo sityva~
mis: Tbilisi, aRmaSeneblis 164;
tel.: 2 14 40 19; 2 34 28 97
registraciis #202375349
formatiT, Tavisi cnebiTi aparatiT. ”enjeoSnikebi” erTmaneTs kargad ugeben; kulturaSi
vera, magram erTmaneTSi SeaqvT SfoTi... es
arian hiperaqtiuri adamianebi, romlebic amis
realizebas socialur sivrceSi Znelad
axerxeben, amitom donorebTan metad hiperaqtiurni arian; SemoaqvT iseTi cnebiT aparati, romelic sruliad acdenilia Cems bunebriv metyvelebas da misi Targmanebac ki SeuZlebelia da mainc Tu moxexrxda, es imdenad komikuria, rom statistikuri adamiani
amas ganicdis!...
zaza firaliSvili _ Cven varT
gardamavali sazogadoeba, romelic raRac
stabiluri, stuqturulad gamarTuli mdgomareobisaken midis... magram ra Tqma unda,
jerjerobiT amas vakeTebT mouxeSavad, SecdomebiT.. magram amas ver davabraleb vercerT
xelisuflebas. es isev istoriuli Cvevebis
problemaa. yvelaferi es Caivlis, Caivlis
is, rac gvawuxebs da darCeba is, rac saWiroa! da Tu Cven cocxali xalxi varT, Tu
CvenSi aris cocxali muxti, energetika, namdvilad gadavrCebiT! mTavaria, meti racionalizmi, rac Cven gvWirdeba da naklebi egzaltireba.
- dRes sazogadoebaSi bevrs msjeloben
mediis problemebze, rogorc Tavad Jurnalistebi, aseve eqspertebi, mediaproduqtis
momxmareblebi da sxv. qarTuli media aris
polarizebuli, aqvs naxevradTavisufali xarisxis indeqsi... rogor SeafasebdiT qarTuli mediis mdgomareobas da SeuZlia Tu ara
mas politikuri zegavlenisagan gaTavisufleba?
lela iakobiSvili _ Tavad sazogadoeba mediis produqtia! amitom SemiZlia
vTqva, rom saqarTveloSi mediis reqviemi ukve namReria!
ra aqvs medias saTqmeli? gaqvT rame saTqmeli? dRes Tqven ar gaqvT saTqmeli! is, rasac Tqven politikur dakveTas eZaxiT, im politikur Zalebsac ki araferi aqvT CvenTvis
saTqmeli. sazriss arcerTi ar atarebs. vercerTi politikuri Zala Tavis sityvasTan
identuri ver aris. dRes ai, es problemaa,
amitom bunebrivia, rom media propagandistul iaraRad iqca... arsebobs komunikaciuri
sistemis instrumentad anu ori politikuri
Zala erTmeneTs esaubreba gazeTebiT; erTi
politikuri Zala sazogadoebas esaubreba
televiziiT, ramdenime maTgani da arasamTavrobo organizaciebi - internetT! es aris da
es! politikuri Zalis saTqmeli mediam Cemamde unda moitanos... sadac media Tavis funqcias asrulebs, sadac SemoqmedebiTi sivrcis
lela iakobaSvili - rodesac me mediis momxmarebeli var da erTaderTi informaciis wyaroa CemTvis, vkonstruirdebi im paternebiT, romelsac is mawvdis. rodesac gamokiTxvis Sedegebs aqveyneben da amboben, rom
sazogadoebam ar icis, vinaa javaxiSvili da
icis, vinaa biWola, es maTive danaSaulia!
ramdeni welia ivane javaxiSvilis saxeli
qarTul mediaSi ar gaJRerebula, maSin rodesac biWola „ekranidan ar Camodis“ da ra
Tqma unda, biWola ecodinebaT! mixeil javaxiSvili, rogorc mwerali, aravis SeuTavazebia mediidan; arc oTar WilaZe... adamianebi
televiziidan erTsadaimave informacias iReben...
zaza firaliSvili: - Sedagad ra
gvaqvs? ramdenime ”seqtanturi dajgufebebi”
- saxelisuflebo da opoziciuri politikuri partiebi, arasamTavrobo organizaciebi,
media, qveynidan gasuli adamianebi, 300000
probacioneri, 1,6 mln ubralo moqalaqe ...
lela iakobiSvili - Tavisufali
sityva, media, ganmanaTlebloba, cnobierebis
ekonomikuri parametrebi evropaSi gaerTianda e.w. adamianTa uflebebSi. es CvenTan, ratomRac damoukidebeli organizaciaa. sruliad araTavsebadi mimarTulebebi gvaqvs im Rirebulebebis mimarT, romlebsac demokratiuli sazogadoba atarebs. demokratiuli sazogadoebis ZiriTadi Rirebuleba aris adamianis ufleba. mis garSemo ikribeba informaciis Tavisuflad gadacemis da miRebis ufleba, ganaTlebis miRebisa da gadacemis ufleba... es uflebaTa sivrcea da rodesac calkea media, calkea saganmanaTleblo sivrce,
calkea ekonomika, sadac es yvelaferi erTmaneTs ver grZnobs.
`obieqtivi~
gazeTi xelmZRvanelobs Tavisufali presis principiT.
SesaZloa, avtoris pozicia ar eTanxmebodes redaqciis azrs.
informaciis sizusteze pasuxismgebelia avtori. gasaCivreba
SesaZlebelia masalis gamoqveynebidan erTi kviris vadaSi.
Semosuli masalebi avtorebs ar ubrundeba.
‹ am niSniT aRniSnulia sareklamo masalebi.
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
xelisufleba axali iniciativiT gamovida _ amieridan vinc
45 wlidan 60 wlamde asakis
moqalaqes miiRebs samsaxurSi,
saSemosavlo gadasaxadis gadaxdisagan Tavisufldeba.
SesaniSnavi iniciativaa, Tumca erTi nakli aqvs _ samuSaoze adamiani rom miiRo, samuSao
adgilebi unda arsebobdes, samuSao adgilebi ki ar aris.
mocemul situaciaSi erTaderTi `gamosavali~ isaa, rom
45 wlamde asakis TanamSromlebi gaferTxo da 45 wels zemoT
vincaa, is miiRo.
ar aris gamoricxuli, zogierTi organizaciis praqtikulad moazrovne xelmZRvaneli
swored ase moiqces da saSemosavlo gadasaxadi, romelsac
aqamde sakuTari jibidan ixdida,
dazogos, Tumca aseT SemTxvevaSi Tavs wamohyofs meore problema _ sad wavidnen 45 wlamde
saerTo gazeTi
modiT, vicxovroT
morigeobiT...
asakis umuSevrad darCenili
adamianebi?!
sad wavidnen da daelodon
TavianT rigs anu im dros, roca 45 wlisani gaxdebian.
ai, ase, vicxovroT, viarseboT da viSromoT morigeobiT _
aqamde Tu 45 wlamde asakis
axalgazrdebi `bairamobdnen~,
axla `starikebis~ dro dadga.
saqme isea, rogorc `me, bebia,
iliko da ilarionSi~ wagvikiTxavs _ Cvenc xom viyaviT am
axalgazrdebis xela? dro rom
gava, isinic xom gaxdebian Cveni
tolebi? hoda, yvelaferi rigzea!
gaatareT urigod
`axali memarjveneebis~ liderma daviT gamyreliZem ganacxada: biZina ivaniSvilTan rigSi
Cadgomas ar vapirebTo.
hoda, urigod gaatareT, kaco, Rvawlmosili partiaa, didi staJiT da namsaxurobis
grZeli CamonaTvaliT.
ase rom, urigod gavataroT, wina karebidan
Tu ar moxerxdeba, ukana karebidan SevaparoT.
eseni, es `memarjveneebi~ ukana
karebidan Separvas ufro arian daCveulni.
_ milionis aReba dagvabrales,
milioni ukvirT da miliarderTan
micunculeba ar eTakilebaT _ aSkarad nawyenia `axlebis~ Tavkaci.
Tavmdablobs batoni gamyreliZe,
Torem am milionamde, rogorc ambo-
ben, sxva milioni iyo, imis iqiT kidev sxva milioni, sul TavSi ki
`aldagi~ da SevardnaZe, Tavis kaxa
TargamaZesTan erTad.
boroti enebi amboben, rom swored `memarjveneebis~ ofisSi miitanes lurji CanTiT is ramdenime mi-
ivaniSvilis advokat levins
aeroportSi feradi qvebi CamoarTves da laboratoriaSi waiRes gasasinjad _ eWvi gvaqvs, rom am qvebiT levins radiaqtiuli nivTierebis Semotana undoda saqarTveloSio.
savse mTvareobisas, miujdeba Turme
batoni biZina magidas, Sav sanTlebs
aanTebs aurdaurevs erTmaneTSi ferad jadosnur qvebs, raRac saidumlo teqsts waikiTxavs da wkap!
dajdeba ramdenime milioni mis angariSze.
Savi magia
lioni, romelic arCevnebSi gamarjvebul politpartiebs da politsubieqtebs daurigdaT Turme parlamentSi arSesvlis sazRaurad.
gaxsovT albaT, rogor gulmodgined aqucmacebdnen makratliT
parlamentaris mandatebs xalxis
mier arCeuli deputatebi _ Cven am
parlamentSi Sesvlas rogor vikadrebTo.
Salva naTelaSvili
gaocebuli
Slida xelebs _
aba, ras viklavdiT
Tavs, Tu parlamentSi Sesvlas ar vapirebdiTo, magram
bolos isic danebda
da Tavisi mandati
sul nakuw-nakuw aqcia, Tumca xelfasis regularulad
aRebaze uari ar
uTqvams.
parlamentSi rom mkvdruli siCumea da nacumravlesobas yvela sakiTxi yovelgvari diskusiis gareSe
gaaqvT, es udavod axlebis damsaxurebaa.
aba, aseT xalxs ivaniSvilTan
rigSi Cadgoma ekadrebaT?
laboratoriulma kvlevam daadastura, rom eWvi usafuZvlo iyo
da axla meore varianti Semoagdes:
_ ivaniSvili Savi magiiTa gatacebuli da es qvebi albaT, magiuri
ritualebis Casatareblad sWirdeboda. miliardebi ivaniSvilma Savi
magiis saSualebiT iSovao.
ai, aq ki marTlac `moartyes~
mizanSi Cveni drois Serlok xolmsebma.
rogorc amboben, Ramis saaTebSi,
TveSi ramdenjerme imeorebs ivaniSvili am rituals da ase uSromelad, muqTad avsebs da avsebs isedac miliardebiT savse yulabas.
ai, aseT versias gvTavazoben `nacionalebTan~ daaxloebuli Jurnalistebi, Tanac, paralelurad, mkiTxavebTan dadian da ivaniSvilis
bed-iRblis garkvevas cdiloben.
xom ar auries am sabraloebma
sabolood da SiSiT Sepyrobilebma
ar ician, ras Cadian.
3
4 saerTo gazeTi
vesaubrebiT
kinodokumentalists,
baton gia Wubabrias..
_ batono gia, bolo wlebSi bevrjer gailanZRa da
augad iqna moxseniebuli qarTveli inteligencia, xan `wiTlebi~ iyvnen, xan `Carecxile bi~, magram farTo sazogadoebisTvis yovelTvis Rirebuli
da saintereso iyo da iqneba
inteligenciis warmomadgenelTa mosazreba ama Tu im movlenaze. Tqven ra azris xarT biznesmen biZina ivaniSvilis po litikaSi CarTvis Sesaxeb?
_ aseTi pirovneba, mecenati
saqarTveloSi meore ar aris.
ase farTo masStabis qvelmoqmedebi arc sarajiSvili da
arc zubalaSvilebi ar yofilan. ivaniSvilma uamravi ojaxi gadaarCina.
kaci amden Tanxebs debs
saqveyno saqmeSi da axla urkveven saidan aqvs. vinme arkvevs
saidan da ra TanxebiT movida
benduqiZe? me, piradad, suraTebi maqvs nanaxi, rogoraa Caxutebuli putinTan. darwmunebuli var, rom samxedro qarxnebs ganagebda, ese igi, kavSirebi aqvs iseT fenebTan, romelTac pirdapiri mtroba aqvT
gamocxadebuli saqarTvelosTan. an kidev, aq rom gamdidrdebian xolme es biznesmenebi,
imaTze kiTxulobs vinme saidan
da rogor?
rodesac qveyanaSi erovnuli saqmeebi da problemebia
mosagvarebeli da me vxedav,
rom es viRacas ukeTesad SeuZlia, gzas davuTmob. yvela ase
unda fiqrobdes. pirveloba ar
mWirdeba, Cemze win unda iyos
is, vinc Cemze ukeTaa saqmeSi
Caxeduli. samwuxarod, Cveni,
qarTvelebis yvelaze didi
ubedureba pirvelobis avadmyofobaa. `sZuls RmerTsa ampartavnoba~, _ ambobda daviT
guramiSvili.
_ ivaniSvilis erT-eerTi
programa ruseTTan urTierTobis daregulirebaa, Tqven rogor TvliT, drom moitana amisi aucilebloba?
_ Cven gvyavda brwyinvale
mefe erekle meore. igi sparseTSi aRizarda da madloba
RmerTs. rom mokavSired airCia
ruseTi. pirvel rigSi, es imitom gakeTa, rom winaaRmdeg
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
SemTxvevaSi, qarTvelebi erTmaneTs SeWamdnen. mas Zalian
mZime periodSi mouxda mefoba.
ar dagaviwydeT, rom 83 wlisa
iyo da kidev ibrZoda. yvelam
uRalata garSemo. Svilebmac
_ anu, Tqven miesalmebiT im
faqts, rom ivaniSvilma politikaSi mosvla gadawyvita da
TvliT, rom qveynisTvis es
momgebiani iqneba...
_ ra Tqma unda. gamoCnda biZina ivaniSvili, mis
Semdeg
SeiZleba,
viRac kidev ukeTesi gamoCndes. mas
unda miesalmo da
ara RvarZli anTxio,
miTumetes,
rom patara eri
varT. magram qarTvelebs ase sCveviaT
_ erTmaneTs anadgureben. dRemde feodalebad davrCiT.
arafers gascems saxelmwifosTvis, piriqiT, mudam mzadaa Zarcvos qveyana. mere es ZeglebTan
da mkvdrebTan brZola raRa
ubedurebaa. stalinis deda unda amovTxaroT saflavidano. es
ra kacobaa. an Tundac stalinis
Zegli rom gadaitanes, Tu vaJkaci xar, aseTebs cocxlebs ebrZole. es sisulelea, mdabali
xalxis fsiqologiaa.
iseTi pirovnebis
gamoCenas, rogoric
biZina
ivaniSvilia,
yvelasTvis misasalmebeli unda iyos,
prezidentisTvisac
ki. gverdiT unda daiyenos es kaci, bevrs
xom xedavT, ra xdeba sxvagan, rogori kataklizmebia,
tornadoebi, cunamebi. Cven
madloba RmerTs, aseTi ram
ar gvemuqreba. sxvagan xalxi
ocnebobs, netavi raimem ixaroso. cimbirSi rom vmuSaobdi, iq Cemma kolegebma mTxoves, erTi yvavili gamogvigzavneT, me veubnebi, qoTanSi
Carguls gamogigzavniT-meTqi.
ara, yvavilis furceli gamogvigzavneo; asea mowyurebuli es xalxi imas, rasac Cven
RmerTi siniT gvaZlevs. unda
gaviTvaliswinoT, rom globalizaciaa, aqve Cems saxlTan
Turqi iSenebs saxls, Zalian
cudi demografiuli mdgoma-
`Wkviani erebi mtersac
ki saTavisod iyeneben,
Cven ki Cvens Tavdadebul
patriotebs vebrZviT?~
ki uRalates, maTgan saukeTeso
ki moukles da es isev qarTvelebma gaakeTes.
stalinmac Tqva, yvelaze
naklebi boroteba saqarTvelosTvis ruseTTan SeerTeba
iyo. stalinizmisgan Zalian
Sors vdgavar, man gaanadgura
Cemi da kidev bevri brwyinvale
ojaxi, magram is Wkviani kaci
iyo. man msoflio faSizmisgan
gadaarCina. im dRes faSizmis
damarcxeba
warmoudgeneli
iyo, amisi ardanaxva ar SeiZleba.
ivaniSvili ambobs, `unda
daregulirdes ruseTTan urTierToba, es uZlieresi qveyanaa Tavisi minusebiTa da pliusebiT. saerTod, urTierTobebis daregulireba yovelTvis
yvelasTan unda scado. sarwmuno wyaroebidan vici, rom arZinbas uTqvams qarTvelebisTvis, davsxdeT da vilaparakoTo, qarTvelebma es Turme ar
ikadres. maSin me ruseTs mivmarTavo da daiwyo is ubedurba, rac dRemde grZeldeba.
cixeSi momxdari buntis
dro dazaralebuli daviT
gaixaraSvilis deda biZina
ivaniSvils mimarTavs
2006 wels
cixeSi momxdari buntis dros dazaralebuli, umZimes
mdgomareobaSi
myofi
daviT
gaixaraSvilis
deda
qeTevan
gigauri biznesmen biZina ivaniSvils Ria mimarTvas ugzavnis.
,,me, qeTevan gigauri, umZimes mdgomareobaSi Cavardnili Svilis deda, batono biZina, mogmarTavT umorCilesad, Tu odesme
rame kargi gagikeTebiaT, amaze kargs ver gaakeTebdiT. me Tqveni mjera, mwams... gTxovT
SemxvdiT, damelaparakeT, oRond ar momikvdes Cemi Svili. gemudarebiT, batono biZina SemxvdiT, sxva gza aRar maqvs, mikvdeba
Svili...batono biZina, Tqvenc xom gyavT
Svilebi, RmerTma didxans gicocxloT. me
kacma ramdenime aTeuli kvadratuli miwis gulisTvis mamis,
dis da disSvilis mokvla gadawyvita, aseTi ram warmoudgenelia. qarTvelTa umetesoba
es erTi Svili damrCa, gTxovT gadamirCineT. RmerTi Tqven giSveliT. aucileblad
RmerTi dagifaravT, daTos daxmarebisTvis.
arafers gTxovT sxvas, SemxvdiT... minda Cemi mdgomareoba agixsnaT. mikvdeba Svili da
aravin hyavs patroni”- aRniSnulia qeTevan
gigauris mimarTvaSi.
mimarTvaSi qeTevan gigauri wers, rom
man damxarebisTvis jandacvis saministrosac mimarTa.
,,ar gegonoT, rom ar mivmarTe jandacvis saministros, yvelas mivmarTe dasaxmareblad. miTumetes, Cemi Svili saxelmwifosganaa dazaralebuli – yofili sportsmeni, mas sicocxle unda... axalgazrdaa.
batono biZina, daTos es saSineleba cixeSi
damarTes. 2006 wels, e.w. buntis dros.
daainvalides, daamtvries, loginidan veRar
dgeba. Zalian mZimed aris ukve... aravin maqcevs yuradRebas... iZulebuli gavxdi, Tqven
SegawuxoT. kidev erTxel gTxovT gamwarebuli deda. sul xuT wuTs wagarTmevT,
mets - ara. es Cemi vedreba miiReT da RmerTi giSveliT Tqven da Tqvens Svilebs”- aRniSnulia mimarTvaSi.
moigebs. unda SevikraT, gavufrTxildeT
Cvens marTlac RvTismSoblis wilxvedr
qveyanas,
irakli alasania
burjanaZesTan politikur
erTobas gamoricxavs
partia ,,Tavisufali demokratebis” lideri irakli alasania
`demokratiuli moZraobis~ lider nino
burjanaZesTan politikur erTobas gamoricxavs.
misi TqmiT, is ver
iqneba politikur erTobaSi iseT partiebTan, romlebic iyvnen
da rCebian radikaluri cvlilebebis moxre.
,,urTierTobas ar gamovricxav, bunebrivia. me ar vyof Cems qveyanas da mosaxleobas viRacis mxardamWerebad da viRacis mowinaRmdegeebad. es aris yvelas qveyana, qalbatoni burjanaZisac, Cemic da Tqvenic. magram es sul sxva Temaa da politikuri erToba da erT Zalad Camoyalibeba sxva Temaa, romelic gamoricxulia”, _ ganacxada
alasaniam.
`medianiusi~
reoba gvaqvs. msoflioSi realurad dgas musulmanuri
saSiSroeba. adre xmliT vicavdiT maTgan Tavs, axla Tanamedrove meTodebiT Semodian, amas globalizacia uwyobs
xels. tolernatoba kargia,
magram zedmeti araferi varga.
ivaniSvili pasuxismgeblobas grZnobs qveynis winaSe da
unda mieces saSualeba, rom
imoqmedos. cota miamitic
aris xasiaTiT, es gamoixateba pirdapirobaSi, magram faqtia, rom qveynis gadarCenis
survili amoZravebs. RmerTma
kidev erTxel gamogviwoda
gadarCenis xeli da gamoviyenoT. Wkviani erebi mtrebs
iyeneben, Cven sakuTar patriotebs da keTilmosurneebs
ver viyenebT.
Wkviani kacis naTqvami
sityva minda gavigono am qveyanaSi. ivaniSvili Wkviania da
mivceT saSualeba, Wkua qveynis sasargeblod gamoiyenos.
Tamuna qadagiZe
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
pirvel noembers pirvelad
vnaxe (davesesxebi im viRac maimunebis arxis xelmZRvanels)
amdeni `gawvrTnili maimuni~ erTad. ra Tqma unda, iq gauwvrTneli maimunebic iyvnen da Jurnalistebic, magram wvrTna Tavisas Svreba, gawvrTnilma maimunebma ise imaimunes, gadafares
danarCenebis arseboba Tavyrilobaze, romelsac ratomRac
preskonferencia erqva. iseTi
STabeWdileba darCeboda ucxo
Tvals, TiTqos erTi didi volieris win ijda biZina ivaniSvili da erToboda imis yurebiT, rogor stacebdnen erTmaneTs banan-mikrofons maimunebi,
an rogor umalavda erTi maTgani danarCenebs, an rogor ver
arTmevdnen igive `xils~ imas,
romelic xelSi Caigdebda _ es
ra vnaxe!
amdeni dRe gavida da axlac
yurSi Camesmis erT-erTi `maimunTsaSenis~ xelmZRvanelis es
fraza `gawvrTnili maimunebi~,
im xelmZRvanelisa, romelic
ver vxvdeba, rom TviTonac gawvrTnili maimunia, swored imgvari, rogoric patara caxes cinoberi iyo, hofmanis nawarmoebis personaJi;
amdeni dRe gavida `mwvane
saxlSi~ gamarTuli preskonferenciidan da `gawvrTnili maimunebis~ Semxedvares Tan mdevs
batoni Wabuas mier daTa TuTaSxias piriT naTqvami sityvebi: `vin xarT, Tqve ubedurebo,
ra jiSis xarT! ra giyoT da
ras dagamsgavsaT mamaZaRlma abela seTurma da, ager, mosaspobma Tabagarma, ar fiqrobT?! ver
xedavT amas?!~
rac biZina ivaniSvili sayovelTao yuradRebis centrSi
aRmoCnda da masTan interviu Tu
intervius msgavsi `baasi~ mavanTaTvis sanukvar ocnebad iqca
sxvadasxva mizeziT, kaci ixveweba, is mkiTxeT, rac sazogadoebas ainteresebs, rac piradad
Tqven gainteresebT, nu mekiTxebiT imas, rac Tqvens gamomgzavnebs ainteresebTo, magram ver
Seasmina veravis. igives imeorebda im dResac, Tan im `bananis~
taciaobas wuxda, pativi eciT
Tqvens profesias, pativi eciT
Tqvens kolegebso, mouwodebda
friad gaaqtiurebulebs. amaod
irjeboda maspinZeli, radgan
aranair mowodebas ar ZaluZs
daSoSminos aboJirebuli volieri, radgan aranair caxess ar
SeuZlia, ragind gawvrTnili
iyos, damalos adamianuri Sesamoselidan gamomzirali primatis sulis triali...
ra Tqma unda, adamianebi, e.w
Jurnalistebi Tu maRali rangis Tanamdebobis pirebi verafriT mixvdebian, ras vambob, `naxe, kolegebs sul maimunebi
uwodao~, damwameben. vinc amgvarad ifiqrebs, maT gasagonad kidev erTxel vimeoreb, es sityvebi me ar miTqvams, Tqvenma
xelmZRvanelma, ase vTqvaT, `ma-
saerTo gazeTi
gawvrTnili maimunebi da
banani, saxelad mikrofoni
imunuri saqmianobis~ mimarTulebis gezis momcemma Tqva da
albaT, icoda kidec, rasac ambobda. diax, Jurnalisti, romelic dRes elene axvledianis
mobiluris nomers daeZebs masTan intervius Casawerad, maRali Tanamdebobis piri ki akakis
saxl-muzeumSi TaiguliT xelSi akakis saflavs daeZebs, ragind mravalgzis ganumarto
darvinis Teoria, sapirispiros
dagimtkicebs.
diax, piradad me, im dRis
Semdeg imdenad SeZruli var
qarTuli Jurnalistikis degeneraciiT, rom darvinsRa mivmarTav: `ser Carlz, Tqven mwared
SecdiT _ adamianisgan warmoiSva maimuni~...
26 maisis aqciis darbevamde,
maxsovs, calkeuli politikuri
saxeebi Jurnalistebis akreditaciis sakiTxsac ki ayenebdnen
aqciaze dasaswrebad, maSin iTqva `pagoniani Jurnalistebis~
Sesaxeb Riad da Seulamazeblad. mere ki, TviT 26 maisis
darbevis dros Jurnalistebis
mimarT aSkara gamoxatuli agresia rom vixile sakuTari TvaliT, amjerad xelisuflebis
mxridan, manamde Tu aqciis monawileebisgan dafarulad mqonda Jurnalistis mowmoba, axla
mis moSorebaze vfiqrobdi, am
cxovelebma es rom naxon, uaresad gadairevian-Tqo.
stresma rom gadamiara, vambobdi, ra Sari gamixda es mowmoba, orive mxares vumalavdiTqo. gasagebia, xalxi gaRizianebulia imiT, rom televiziebi
araobieqturad aSuqeben qveyanaSi mimdinare movlenebs, magram
sakuTar televiziebSi Tu undaT, sulac Tavdayira ivlian,
`ar mogwons? _ gadarTe!~ xom
xedaven, asea dayenebuli sakiTxi-Tqo, vamarTlebdi Cems
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
ze
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
kolegebs. erTma asakovanma qalma miTxra, Svilo, RmerTma dagifaros, magram jer kidev sisxlmdinari mokluli Svili rom
win gesvenis da Seni kolegebi
naxevarwuTiani eTerisTvis, ise
rom, srulebiT ar ainteresebT,
Svili mogikles Tu qaTami, mikrofons gCridnen pirSi, eWvi
visze gaqvso da ukan dagedevnon
jgrod, ra ganwyoba dageuflebao? _ gavCumdi. Semzara...
ukve (didi xania) naTelia,
rom mikrofoni banani yofila
mravalTaTvis (rogorc, vTqvaT,
momRerali maimunebisTvis), magram Wamis (ara mxolod sakvebisas) survilis dakmayofilebis
dauokebel grZnobas sadamde
mihyavs adamiani, esec me unda
davimaxsovroo.
ras vizamT, roca dRevandel
zogierT e.w Jurnalists hgonia, rom Jurnalistika me-20 saukunis pirmSoa, (mas Semdeg gaCnda, rac televizori gamoCnda)
ukeTes SemTxvevaSi XIX saukunis, kidev ukeTes SemTxvevaSi
XVII-XVIII saukuneebis, _ Jurnalistma mxolod wera-kiTxva
rom icis da `sxvagan hqris misi goneba~, amis bralia es. banani-mikrofoni da misgan miRebuli kuWis moTxovnilebis dakmayofilebis grZnoba arasdros
gascems im kiTxvaze pasuxs, romelia uZvelesi profesia meZavobis Semdeg. am kiTxvaze rom
pasuxi gasces Jurnalistma,
jer is unda icodes, ra gansx-
vTqva? `biZia-babuasi~ ar iyos
`Serekilebidan~, ras gaswavlidnen, Tqve ubedurebo, skolaSi...
nebismier gamvlels rom
hkiTxoT, pirveli uZvelesi
profesia ra ariso, daufiqreblad gipasuxebs, rom meZavobaa.
rom CaeZio, meoreo? _ Tvalebs
aafaxulebs, tuCebs aSkvers da
cas axedavs, iqneb pasuxi STamegonoso. nu hkiTxavT nebismier
gamvlels, im JurnalistebisTvis unda gekiTxaT, (romelTa
zusti raodenoba verafriT davadgine, 170? 233?) mTawmindis
`mwvane saxlidan~ rom gamovidnen, ggoniaT, sxva suraTs miiRebdiT? _ meZavobis Tqmaze isinic ar Seyovndebodnen, meore
profesiaze ki, gamvlelebisgan
gansxvavebiT, yurebs aafaxulebdnen, egeb TviTon wamoscdes da
vavebaa papirossa da papiruss
Soris, mere is, ra iwereboda
papirusebze da romel aTaswleulebSi. (is ar unda ikiTxos,
romel wlebSio) teleJurnalistma is mainc unda icodes,
rom Jurnalistika televiziiT
ar iwyeba, televiziiT teleJurnalistikas Caeyara safuZveli, rom termini `Jurnalistika~ mxolod konkretuli azris
Semcveli iyo, aRniSnavda gazeTs, dRiurs da ara im erTobliobas, romlis mravalferovani saxec dRes gvaqvs...
arsad weria SaviT TeTrze,
rogori unda iyos Jurnalisti,
magram arc is weria sadme, rom
Jurnalisti Tavxedi, uzrdeli,
ukulturo, matyuara da eSmakze sulmiyiduli unda iyos...
arc is weria sadme, rom
radgan uZveles profesiaTagan
pirveli meZavobaa da meore
Jurnalistoba,
pirovnebaSic
pirvel-meore adgilebze (pirdapir Tu gadataniTi mniSvnelobiT) unda gadanawildes.
rodesac Jurnalisti (`presa.ge~) gamodis `mwvane saxlSi~
gamarTuli preskonferenciidan
da ambobs, biZina ivaniSvili
preskonferenciaze tyviagaumtari SuSis miRma ijdao, gaxevdebi Tundac imitom, rom baton
merab beraZis SesaZleblobebi
gagaognebs, rogor daubrkoleblad gavida `tyviagaumtar~ SuSaSi, _ aseTi saocari tyuilis
daxeTqeba sakuTari Tavis daxeTqeba rom aris, amas rom e.w
Jurnalisti ver mixvdeba da
xels moawers amaze, romeli
uZvelesi profesiis mimdevaria,
netav, misma patronma (Tu hyavs)
mainc Tu icis, Torem TviTon
rom ar icodes, verc moxvdeboda iq.
TviT is faqti, rom `ase nanatri~ preskonferenciis Catarebis Semdeg Jurnalistebis
qcevis sakiTxi gaxda mniSvnelovani da ara is, ra Tqva kacma, vis gamoc Tavi daiviwya araerTma mdedrma Tu mamrma, mxolod imis amsaxvelia, ra qaosicaa isedac gaorpirqarebuli
xelisuflebis TavSi misi gamoCenisTanave. amas garda, aris meorec, e.w Jurnalistebi ise gaiWaWnen ivaniSvilisTvis niRbis
Camosaxsnelad e.w `CamWreli
kiTxvebis arsenaliT~ SeiaraRebulebi, rom gauazreblad sakuTar marCenals eZgernen da ise
Camoaglijes niRabi, zogs saxis
kanic gahyva Tbil qveynebSi gadafrenil mercxlebTan erTad
(mercxlis, beRurebisa da pingvinis `Tema~ xom ukve fsiqopaTobis donemde davida Tu avida).
socialur qselSi gavrcelda, im dRes qarTuli Jurnalistika dasamarda da droulad
unda gaasvenono, _ ara, batonebo, qarTul Jurnalistikas araferi sWirs gasasvenebeli, ubralod, saxelisuflebo e.w Jurnalisturi nagavia gasatani,
bevri dagrovda, daxvavda da
isic iseve yars, rogorc maTi
mama-marCenalis dorbliani piri...
maia WeliZe
5
6 saerTo gazeTi
mas Semdeg, rac saqrTvelos
ruseTume prezidentma winandalSi iqeifa, icekva da sul `kalinka~ da `ex, darogi~ imRera,
SegviZlia kategoriulad moviTxovoT: daabruneT rusuli
simRerebi qarTul restornebSi!
saqme is gaxlavT, rom SabaTs
winandalSi rusi reJisoris, putinis Zma da megobris, nikita
mixalkovis qaliSvilis qorwili gaimarTa. siZe qarTveli reJisoria. sakuTar qorwilSi vin
rogor moilxens, ra Cveni saqmea. Cven is vikiTxoT, sakuTari
prezidenti ratom daiareba qorwil-qorwil da Rvinisagan saxedafiJvinebuli ratom poziorobs fotokamerebis win, TiTqos Zalian saamayo saqmeze iyos
Casuli winandalSi? isic vikiTxoT, Tu paata burWulaZisTvis moskovSi simRera samSoblos
Ralatia, ra hqvia ucxo da erT
dros `persona non gratad~ gamocxadebuli kacis qorwilSi
kuntruSs? da saerTodac, Tu
xelisuflebisTvis nebadarTulia cnobil rus saxeebTan garToba, ratom aris CvenTvis akrZaluli saqmiani urTierTobebic
ki? da bolos, am xelisuflebas
saerTod namusi aqvs da ramis
cxvenia?
ise, msgavsi ritorikuli
kiTxva bolo namdvilad ver iqneba da Tu ratom, amas qveviT
vnaxavT.
saSiSi vaqcina
naxevrad gayidul da gasayidad gamzadebul bavSvTa poliklinikebSi sagangaSo ambavi gavrcelda. eqimebs treningebi Cautares da gaafrTxiles, rom miRebulia axli vaqcina yivanaxvela, difteriisa da wiTelasTvis, romelic CexeTidan Semoi-
tanes. jandacvis saerTaSoriso
organizaciam am preparats licenzia ar mianiWa. wamlis legitimaciisaTvis saqarTvelos xelisuflebam adgilze moaxdina
vaqcinis licenzireba da poliklinikebSi ise Seitana. am
acras ufasod akeTeben,
oRond eqimebi mSoblebs
afrTxileben, rom saSiSia patarebisTvis, visac
ZaRlis bewvze alergia
aqvs. rogor unda mixvdes
deda, axalSobils alergia raze aqvs, Zneli gasarkvevia. mTavaria, rom
poliklinikebs parale-
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
lurad aqvT xarisxiani wamali,
romelic 38 lari Rirs da
mSoblebs araoficialurad afrTxileben, Tu Zalian ar giWirT,
nu gariskavT, isev fasiani acra
gaukeTeTo. Catarda Tu ara tenderi Cexuri vaqcinis Semotana-
an obieqti akontrolos. am sistemis saSualebiT sagadasaxado
inspeqtoric onlain-reJimSi xedavs da akontrolebs, Tu rogor mimdinareobs sagadasaxado
angariSsworeba.
rogorc oficialurad acxadeben, Semosavlebis samsaxursa
da kompania Daisy Technology-s
Soris xelmowerili xelSekrulebiT, SeZenilia 100 000 cali
salaro aparati. maTi SeZena 13
300 000 dolari dajda. nawyveti sagadasaxado samsaxuris
SarSandeli informaciidan: `salaro aparats 3 weli eqneba garantia da is ufasod gadaecema
im mewarmeebs, visi biznesic 250
000 laris brunvas ar aRemateba, xolo im mewarmes, romlis
biznesis brunva am Tanxaze metia, finansTa saministros Tavdapirveli dapirebis miuxedavad,
salaro aparatis SeZena mouwevs.
aparati 300 lari Rirs~.
papapa, ra SeRavaTebia!
mogexsenebaT, prezidenti biZina ivaniSvilis gamoCenam ise
aSala, rom dapirebas dapirebaze
iZleva da iseT Tamasuqebs arigebs, sulsa da guls uxaria. amJamad, miSas didi sazrunavi is
Suaxnis xalxia, vinc Tavis
droze TviTon moisrola drois
prezidentis rusuli qeifi,
akrZaluli vaqcina bavSvebisTvis
da sagadasaxados kidev erTi
tyuili, anu rogor viSovoT
fuli mosaxleobis xarjze?
ze, ramdeni daixarja biujetidan, an vin gariska aralicenzirebuli vaqcinis Semotana, saxelmwifo saidumloebad rCeba.
saidumloa isic, Tu visi biznesia vaqcinebis Semotana da vin
iSova fuli uvargisi wamlis
realizebiT. SarSan poliklinikebi 100-140 larad hyiddnen
sxvadasxva warmoebis analogiur
vaqcinebs. maSin jandacvis centri amtkicebda, rom saqarTveloSi fasiani vaqcina ar arsebobs
da es saqme ver iqneba kerZo biznesis obieqti. am gancxadebebis
miuxedavad, bavSvebi isev fulis
Sovnis obieqtad rCebian da Tanac Zalian sarisko TamaSSi arian moxvedrilebi, ise, rom amis
Sesaxeb xSirad mSoblebmac araferi ician.
kidev erTi
mamali tyuili
Semdegi saxelisuflebo afera axal salaro aparatebs
Seexeba. sagadasaxado samsaxuris ofisebSi misul biznesmenebs didi, magram kargad nacnobi siurprizi xvdebaT: ufaso qveyanaze araferia, gadaixadeT 306 lari. es sagadasaxados moTxovnaa. im sagadasaxadosi, romlis yofili Sefi
erTi
wlis
ganmavlobaSi
gvmoZRvravda, rom axal salaro aparatebs mewarmeebisTvis
saxelmwifo SeiZenda. rogorc
sazogadoebisaTvis aris cnobili, axali salaro aparati
GPRS sistemazea mierTebuli da
obieqtis mflobels Tavisuflad SeuZlia, sakuTari maRazia
calsaxad SegviZlia vTqvaT,
rom mTavrobam mewarmeebisTvis
micemuli piroba kidev erTxel
daarRvia da komerciuli interesiT moqmedeba daiwyo. `fuli,
babaia, fuli!~ _ am xelisuflebis maradiuli devizia. Tu gaviTvaliswinebT, rom dRevandeli mdgomareobiT, oficialur
reestrSi 355 aTasi subieqtia
aRricxuli, unda vikiTxoT, rogor apirebda Semosavlebis samsaxuri 100 000 salaro aparatis ganawilebas? SeuZlebeli
iyo, 250 000 larze naklebi
brunva mxolod 100 000 mewarmes hqonoda. hoda, sagadasaxdomac martivi gamosavali ipova:
iyidos iman, visac fuli aqvs.
marTalia, oficialurad amas
aravin adasturebs, magram yvela
mewarme fiqrobs, rom Zveli apa-
sanagveze da faqtobrivad, saqmianobis ufleba aukrZala. rogorc Cans, prezidentma, zurikelasaviT igrZno, rom es misi
yvelaze seriozuli `garRvevaa~
da amis gamosasworeblad axali
Tamasuqi isrola: kompania, romelic 45-60 wlis moqalaqes
daasaqmebs, gaTavisufldeba saSemosavlo gadasaxadisgan. ex, miSa, miSa, egre dawvrilmanebac ar
Rirs. sad unda daasaqmon, roca
samuSao adgilebis deficitia
da Tanac am gadasaxads biznesi
ki ara Cven, moqalaqeebi vixdiT
sakuTari xelfasidan, anu sakuTari jibidan.
2007 wels, ori gadasaxadi
- saSemosavlo da sacialuri gaerTianda. Tu adre daqiravebuli
xelfasidan saxelmwifo biujetSi saSemosavlo gadasaxadis
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
ze
ratebis moqmedebis vada wlis
bolos amoiwureba, anu wlis
bolomde axali salaro aparatebi, mTeli saqarTvelos masStabiT, yvela savaWro obieqtSi
unda daidgas. vinc ver moaxerxebs SeZenas, bunebrivia, solidurad dajarimdeba. arada, Zalian bevria iseTi mcire mewarme,
vinc wlis dasawyisSi Zlivs moaxerxa salaro aparatis SeZena
da axla sagadasaxado isev
Txovs, oTusbirad SeiZinos axali aparatebi. isic sakiTxavia,
290 larad Rirebul nivTs ratom yidis saxelmwifo 306 larad da vis jibeSi midis is 16
lari?
saxiT 12%-s ixdida, damqiravebeli ki socialuri gadasaxadis
saxiT 20%-s, cvlilebebis Semdeg, am ori gadasaxadis gadamxdeli mxolod daqiravebuli
gaxda da xelfasis 25%-is gadaxda daekisra. es drakonuli
gadawyvetileba maSin swored
damsaqmeblis, anu potenciuri
investoris gulis mosagebad miiRes da gadasaxadis mTeli simZime daqiravebuls daakisres.
erTi sityviT, xelisuflebam sakuTari cxovreba Cvens xarjze
aiwyo. dRes ki ratom cdiloben
amis gamosworebas, yvela kargad
xedavs.
es iniciativac rom blefia
da araferi aqvs saerTo realobasTan, amaze yvela biznesmeni,
sxvaTa Soris, Riad laparakobs.
maTi zogadi komentari aseTia:
skeptikurad vuyureb am iniciativas, radgan ara mgonia, aman
vinmes rame SeRavaTi moutanos.
Tu axali samuSao adgilebi ar
Seiqmna, bazari ar gaizarda, ra
Seicvleba? ra, Zvelebi unda gauSvan da Suaxnis xalxi miiRon?
es iniciativa gaamarTlebs maSin,
Tu ekonomikaSi realurad momentaluri zrda wava~.
ufro kategoriulia irakli petriaSvili, gaerTianebuli profkavSirebis xelmZRvaneli:
_ CvenSi asaki namdvilad ganmsazRvrelia, diskriminaciulad
ganmsazRvrelic. xSirad adamianebs dasaqmebaze uars eubnebian
asakis gamo. damlageblis vakansiebic ki 20-25 wlamde aris.
Zalian zogadi gancxadebaa da
rogoria misi qveteqstebi, ar
viciT. miT ufro, ganmarteba gaakeTes, rom es xalxi sam-sami
TviT dasaqmdebian. xom ar gaxdeba es iniciativa sababi imisTvis,
rom axalgazrdebi daiTxovon, an
kadrebi maqsimalurad gadaiyvanon samTvian xelSekrulebebze?
iqneb isic moxdes, rom asakovani TanamSromelebi saxlSi gauSvan da mere xelaxla aiyvanon.
gasagebia, rom gvinda xalxis dasaqmeba, Tanac yvelaze ganawyenebuli fenis, magram ramdenad iqneba es iniciativa gadamwyveti,
Zneli saTqmelia.
p.s. kidev erTi mniSvnelovani sircxvili gasuli kviris
samTavrobo sisuleleebidan: saqarTvelo, `principuli da Seuqcevadi~ poziciis miuxedavad,
daTanxmda ruseTis saerTaSoriso organizaciaSi gawevrianebas.
gaiJRera, rom monitorings
sazRvrebze ara saerTaSoriso
organizaciebi, aramed, kerZo pirebi ganaxorcieleben. agaSenaT
RmerTma, fulis Sovnis kidev
erTi wyaro da isic rusebTan
erTad. verafers ityvi, ician biWebma fulis keTeba patriotulad da samSoblos xarjze!
manana gegiZe
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
,,saerTo gazeTis~ stumaria
politologi ramaz sayvareliZe:
_ batono ramaz, biZina ivaniSvilis preskonferencias feierverki uwodeT. ra gaZlevT
amis Tqmis safuZvels?
_ feirverki vuwode ara
mxolod biZina ivaniSvilis gamosvlas, aramed mTlianad iq
Seqmnil mdgomareobas. situacia
atarebda ara preskonferenciis,
aramed politikuri duelis
iers xelisuflebasa da ivaaniSvils Soris. xelisuflebis pozicia samTavrobo mediis Jurnalistebi axovanebdnen. TiTqmis
yvela qveyanSi arsebobs mediis
garkveuli jgufi, romelic garkveul politikur ZalebTan
asocirdeba da maTi interesebis
gamtarebelia. romelime politikur segmentTan dakavSirebuili Jurnalistebi, rogorc wesi,
mxolod romantiulad ar arian
maTTan mierTebuli. mediis warmomadgenlebi politikuri elitisgan sxvadasxva saxis davalebebs Rebuloben, romelic politikosebis strategias emsaxureba. CemTvis yvelaze ufro metad
saintereso iyo Tu ra strategia hqonda xelisuflebas, xolo, meore mxriv, ra sapasuxo
manevrebs Caatarebda ivaniSvili
imis gaTvaliswinebiT, rom kiTxvebic da pasuxebic metnaklebad
momzadebuli iyo.
_ Tqveni azriT, ra strartegia aqvs xelisuflebas?
_ jerjerobiT, xelisuflebis strategiad kvlav rCeba rusul Temaze apelireba. aRarafers vambob, beRurebze, pingvinebsa da mercxlebze.
_ relurad, visi feirverki
iyo saxelisuflebo mediis Tu
ivaniSvilis?
_ ra Tqma unda, es iyo biZina ivaniSvilis feierverki. politikur duelSi, Cemda gasakvirad, ivaniSvilma sakmaod kargad imuSava. imis gaTvaliswinebiT, rom nino JiJilaSvilTan
micemul interviuSi emociuri
reaqcia im nawilSi gamoavlina,
sadac ar unda gamoexata. yvelas
gasakvirad, ivaniSvilma mSvidad,GRimil-sicilSi
Caatara
preskonferencia, magram, praqtikulad, arc erTi pozicia ar
daTmo. amis gakeTeba politikosis mxridan ukve didi warmatebaa.
_ batono ramaz, saqarTveloSi ramdenad arsebobs imis resursi, rom ivaniSvilma dagegmili ganaxorcielos?
_ im adamianTa ricxvs ar mivekuTvnebi vinc, Tvlis, rom
dRevandeli ivaniSvili politikuri TvalsazrisisaT, misi saboloo saxea. is mudmivad icvleba, mudmivad swavlbs, Tu rogori unda iyos axal ampluaSi.
erTi Tvis win ufro agresiuli
iyo, dRes gacilebiT Riaa, erTi
Tvis win SedarebiT nakleb sa-
saerTo gazeTi
`CemTvis, rogorc saqarTvelos moqalaqisTvis
isic sakmarisi iqneba, rom ivaniSvilma
mmarTvel partias umaravlesobiT
mosvlis SesaZlebloba ar misces~
kiTxebze hqonda pozicia, dRes
ukve es maCvenebeli gazrdilia.
ase rom, biznesmeni nel-nela irgebs politikosis imijs da albaT, mis poziciebis CamoyalibebasTan dakavSirebT, Zalian bevri siaxle gvelodeba. marTalia,
biZina ivaniSvili politikaSi
moumzadebeli Semovida, magram
is yvela sakiTxs racionalurad
udgeba da uars ar ambobs iswavlos, es ki qarTul politikaSi
namdvilad didi iSviaTobaa.
_ sofel WorvilaSi maswavleblebma ivaniSvilis moqalaqeobis aRdgenasTan dakavSirebiT,
xelmowerebis Segroveba daiwyes. maT ukve SeuerTdnen sazogadobis warmomadgenlebic:
momRerlebi, msaxiobebi. vrceldeba informaciac, rom Tavad saakaSvils, misi gundis wevrebic
urCeven, biznesmens daubrunos
moqalaqeoba. Tqveni azriT, xelisufleba wava am daTmobaze?
_ gaaCnia sasworis meore
mxareze ra ideba. xelisufleba
Tu dainaxavs, rom safrTxe emuqreba, moqalaqeobas daubrunebs.
im SemTxvevaSi Tu mTavrobis
bed-iRbali ar Seicvleba, cxadia, daTmobaze ar wava da uaris
mTqmelad darCeba.
_ Tqveni azriT, rogor ajobebs xelisuflebisTvis wavides
daTmobaze da daubrunos moqalaqeoba Tu ara?
_ mgonia, saakaSvili ivaniSvils moqalaqeobas aRar daubrunebs da ecdeba procesi maqsimalurad gawelos, raTa ufro
bevri berketi CarTos politikur brZolaSi.
_ SesaZlebelia Tu ara, viTareba revoluciur procesebSi
gadaizardos?
_ sruliad SesaZlebelia,
ivaniSvilis winaaRmdegobis miuxedavad. mas ar surs viTarebis
daZabva da revoluciur procesamde misvla. ar gamovricxav
revoluciuri scenaris ganviTarebis iniciatori Tavad xelisufleba iyos. amisaTvis dasaSvebia, nacmoZraobam ivaniSvilis
gundSi Canergos admianebi romlebic procesebis revoluciuri
meTodebiT ganviTarebaze imuSaveben. mosaxleoba Tu quCeSi gamovida wesrigis damyarebis aucileblobiT, mmarTveli gundi
Zalas gamoiyenebs. Semdeg ki sxva radikalurad ganwyobili opozicioneris msgavsad, ivaniSvilsac miakereben rusul iarliys. Tu rogor ganviTardeba
movlenebi mxolod, sazogadoebaze araa damokidebuli, ganmsazRvreli iqneba, ra strategias airCevs xeliseufleba.
_ preskonferenciidan gamoCnda, rom Tu ivaniSvils moqalaqeobas ar daubruneben, mzadaa,
sakuTari ndobiT aRWurvili piri Cauyenos saTaveSi politkur
partias. am formiT ra Sansebi
aqvs biZina ivaniSvils?
_ ra Tqma unda, Sansebi klebulobs, radgan politikuri
persona qarTveli amomrCevlisTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania. xelisuflebas sakmaod saTanado da
didi resursebi gaaCnia imisTvis,
rom dafiqrdes, gaanalizos situacia ukan daxios, sadac saWiroa da sabolood gamarjvebas
miaRwios. 2009 wlis aprilis
movlenebisas swored ase moiqca.
aqamde Tu xelisufleba impulsurad da emociurad moqmedebda,
situacias dawynarebs da SeimuSavebs sxva strategias. maT SeuZliaT Tavi daanebon ruseTis
TemiT spekulirebas, putinis
proeqtobas da Semoagdon sul
sxva gegma, magaliTisTvis: viTom
biZina ivaSvili saakaSvilis
proeqtia.
_ ras moigebs amiT saakaSvili?
_ amiT SeuZlia opoziciurad ganwyobili sazogadoeba,
romelic Tavis molodinebs biZina ivaniSvilTan akavSirebs Ca-
moacilos im motiviT, rom SesakrebTa gadanacvlebiT ubralod, situacia ar icvleba. xelisuflebas am kondiciamde misvla Zaliam martivad SeuZlia
yovelgvari Tofisa da joxis
gamoyenebis gareSe. amitom saubari TiTqos xelisuflebam yvelanairi resursi amowura, naadrevia.
_ miuxedavad imisa, rom ivaniSvils aqamde ar Seuqmnia partia, ar gamoucxadebia samoqmedo
gegma, sazogadoebis mxridan mainc
didi mxardaWeriT sargeblobs.
Tqveni azriT, ra aris mizezi, ara
mgonia ganmsazRvreli mxolod
qvelmoqmedeba yofiliyo?
_ qvelmoqmedeba ivaniSvilisTvis piaris Semadgenel komponentad iqca. mosaxleobas SesaZlebloba mieca ivaniSvilis pirovnebaze garkveuli warmodgena
Seqmnoda. adamiani, romelic qarTvel fenomenebs ki ar ebrZvis,
piriqiT, xels uwyobs. faqtobrivad, amiT saakaSvilis antipodi gamovida. xelisuflebas Secdomebi rom ar daeSva sakadro
cvlilebebis dros, erovnuli
Rirebulebebis SenarCunebaSi,
mSvidobianobaSi, teritoriuli
mTlianobis sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT, sazogadoebis mxridan
aseTi reaqcia ar iqneboda. dRes
ivaniSvilze gaCnda molodini,
rom is daicavs saqarTvelos da
qarTvelebs.
_ ivaniSvili apirebs Camoayalibos samoqalaqo moZraoba
,,qarTuli ocneba~ razea damokidebuli maTi warmateba?
_ simarTle giTxraT, gaugebaria, biZina ivaniSvili ratom
ayalibes msgavi tipis moZraobas.
misi mxridan es nabiji moumzadeblad meCveneba. sazogadoebrivi moZraoba stiqiurad isedac
Seiqmna. ,,qarTu bankis~ win Sekrebili adamianebi amis naTeli
magalia. ufro saintereso iqneboda ivaniSvils Sesabamisi nabijebi stiqiurad ganwyobili sazogadoebis SesanarCuneblad gadaedga. moZraobaSi gasawevrianeblad xalxi sxvadasxva motiviT miva. zogs miliarderis jibesTan miaxloba moundeba, nawili xelisuflebis davalebiT,
ase rom ivaniSvils sazogadoebrivi moZraoba sakmao problemebs Seuqmnis.
_ ivaniSvili did imedebs amyarebs arCevnebe. Tqveni azriT,
ra Sansebi aqvs, roca saakaSvilis gundi arevnebTan dakavSirebul piarsa da politteqnologiebs sakmaod kargad flobs?
_ am etapze Sansebze saubari
miWirs, radgan biznesmenis politikaSi gamoCenis Semdeg socialur gamokvlevebs ar gavcnobivar. CemTvis, rogorc saqarTvelos moqalaqisTvis isic sakmarisi iqneba, rom ivaniSvilma
mmarTvel partias umravlesobiT
mosvlis SesaZlebloba ar misces. miviRoT parlamenti sadac
ZalTa balansi 50-50 iqneba. iWidavon politikosebma da ase gadaWran problemebi. miTumtes,
premier-ministrs parlamentis
wevrebi irCeven da saintereso
iqneba, sakanonmdeblo organoSi
ra kuTxiT ganviTardeba movlenebi. amis miRweva biznesmens yovelgvari piarteqnologiebis gareSec SeuZlia.
_ ra SeiZleba gaxdes arCevnebze ivaniSvilisTvis warmatebis garanti?
_ rasakvirvelia, misi imiji,
mis irgvliv gaerTianebuli sazogadoebisa da politikuri Zalebis konsolidacia, romelic
sakmaod didi resursia da mesame, rogorc Cans, ivaniSvilis
Sesaxeb erTnairi poziciebi aqvs
aSS da ruseTs. ruseTs rogorc
Cvevia, maincdamainc ar qirqilebs iaSvilis figuraze, rusuli media aSuqebs, magram neitralurad da maTi pozicia gasagebia. ivaniSvilis xelisuflebaSi
mosvlis SemTxvevaSi ruseTs eqneba qarTul mTavrobasTan molaparakebis SesaZlebloba dRevandeli xelisuflebis pirobebSi es SeuZlebelia. medvedevs
saqarTvelos mTavrobTan molaparakebebis dawyeba ukve sWirdeba imisTvis, rom evropuli donis qveyanad iqces.
_ Tqveni azriT, ivaniSvilma
arCvenebis dros unda CarTos
mxolod ucxoeli piarteqnologiebis mcodne adamianebi, mxolod qarTveli Tu orive erTad?
_ Tu mxolod ucxoel specialists aiyvans is Tavis qveynis gamocdilebas SesTavazebs,
ramac saqarTveloSi, SesaZloa
ar gaamarTlos. Tu mxolod adgilobriv specialists daeyrdnoba, man SeiZleba Tanamedrove
piaarteqnologiebi ar icodes,
amitom, adgilobrivma da ucxoelma specialistebma erToblivad unda imuSaon. am etapze rusebs aqvT yvelaze saukeTeso piari. isini elcinis arevnebisas
gaiwvrTnen, roca Camoiyvanen amerikeli specialistebi, romlebmac rus specialistebTan erToblivad imuSaves da warmatebasac miaRwies.
_ gavrcelda informacia,
rom xelisuflebam samxedro moxaliseebis wvrTna daiwyo, xom
ar emzadebian qveynaSi qaosis
dawyebisaTvis?
_ analogiuri procebisTvis,
rogorc Cans, emzadebian. gavrcelebuli informaciiT, mzaddeba
araformaluri struqturebi,
romelTac, SesaZloa, saerTo ar
aqvT xelisuflebasTan da sazogadoebaSi, ubralod, terorisa
da SiSis danergvas emsaxureba.
miranda nabaxteveli
7
8 saerTo gazeTi
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
giorgi margvelaSvili: `ivaniSvilis
gansakuTrebiT didi pliusi isaa,
rom igi bevrad ufro
gawonasworebulia,
vidre nebismieri
politikuri
lideri
gvesaubreba `jipas~
reqtori, filosofosi
giorgi
margvelaSvili::
_ batono giorgi, axali
Zalis gamoCenam politikur
cxovrebaSi axali realoba
Seqmna. rogor gesaxebaT movlenebis Semdgomi ganviTareba,
ra cvlilebebia mosalodneli?
_ diax, marTlac axali realobis winaSe aRmovCndiT, gamoCnda alternatiuli gravitaciis centri, anu Zala, romelic aramxolod movlenebis
sxvagvari SefasebiT, gansxvavdeba, aramed mas seriozuli
wona, politikuri mniSvneloba
gaaCnia. Sedegad, ori gravitaciuli centri Camoyalibda,
rac aqamde ar arsebobda, anu
realurad gaCnda alternativa.
es pirveli pozitivi iyo, rac
qarTul politikur sivrceSi
ivaniSvilis gamoCenas ukavSirdeba. ufro zustad rom
vTqvaT, pozitiuria ukve is,
rom qarTul sazogadoebaSi,
maT Soris politikur sivrceSic, gansxvavebuli politikuri Sexedulebebis arsebobam
legitimuri xasiaTi miiRo.
samwuxarod, Cveni xelisuflebis azrovneba, msoflmxedveloba, politikuri kredo
ori centris arsebobasac ki
ewinaaRmdegeba. Sesabamisad, maTi nabijebis mimarTuleba tradiciulad Semdegia: maT undaT,
rom arsebobdes mxolod erTi
unitaruli, maTi politikuri
sivrce. am tendenciam, Cveni
xelisufleba avtoritarizmamde miiyvana da saakaSvili cota ar iyos tiraniasTan gaaTamaSa kidec... samwuxarod, am sakiTxis mimarT xelisuflebis
damokidebuleba ar Secvlila,
dRes mcdelobaa isev im unitarul politikur realobas davubrundeT. Sesabamisad, Zneli
saTqmelia ra qmedebebs ganaxorcieleben. magram Tu wina
wlebs gadavxedavT, TvalsaCino gaxdeba, rom es sqema yovelTvis garedan iyo mxardaWerili. kerZod, iyo es sakuTari xalxis darbeva-dapatimreba, Tu arCevnebis dros motyueba, nebismier SemTxvevaSi, am
yvelafers garedan hqonda Tu
ara mxardaWera, mimRebloba mainc. magram, viTareba Secvlilia. dRes, xelisuflebis mimarT msgavsi mxardaWera garedan ar Cans. anu aRar muSaobs
Zveli sqema, rodesac xelisufleba Tavisi represiuli
manqaniT „agvarebda“ viTarebas
da Semdeg amas aravin irgvliv
ar amCnevda. aseT viTarebaSi
rogor moaxerxebs xelisufleba kidev erTxel Caidinos
danaSauli kacobriobisa da
Tavisi xalxis winaSe da moiqces ise, rogorc icis, rogorc sCvevia? ar Cans, rom
aseTi saqcieli garedan iqneba
mxardaWerili, dRes vandaluri politikis mimarT mzaobas
ver vxedav. Sesabamisad, xelisufleba Cveuli sqemis gareT
darCa. amitom Zneli saTqmelia
ras moimoqmedebs igi.
_ ras niSnavs 18 elCis
stumroba mis karze, imas xom
ara, rom dasavleli gare Zalebic mxars uWeren ivaniSvils?
_ CemTvis Zneli saTqmelia
ra formiT xdeba xolme es garigebebi. saxezea faqtebi. 25
maiss sakuTari eris, qveynis,
zogadad demokratiuli principebis winaSe danaSauli iqna
Cadenili, meore dRes ki amave
adgilas aRlumi tardeba, rasac saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis mxridan mSvidi Sefasebebi eZleva. aseTi antisaxelmwifoebrivi qmedebisTvis xelisuflebas saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis mxridan mwvane Suqi aqvs anTebuli. ivaniSvilis
SemTxvevaSi ar vici, rogor
iqneba es sakiTxi. magram faqtia, rom ivaniSvils aqvs mxardaWera, rac legitimizirebulia Tundac elCebis vizitiT.
vils imuniteti gaaCnia saakaSvilis vandalizmis sapirispirod, es aSkaraa.
_ 25 maisis Rames da 26 maisis dilas ganviTarebul mov lenebs Tqven demokratiis dasasruli uwodeT. ra SeiZleba
Secvalos axalma politikurma
Zalam Tundac demokratiulo bis kuTxiT?
_demokratia marTlac dasrulda maSin, roca 25 maisis
Rames rusTavelze vandalizmi
ivaniSvili saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobis mier mxardaWerilia, rogorc kandidati, romelTanac bandituri formiT
urTierToba daSvebuli ar
aris. amiT ar vambob TiTqos
ivaniSvili awyobs msoflios,
an saakaSvils cvlian ivaniSviliT. magram is, rom ivaniS-
moxda, meore dRes ki am adgilas taS-fanduri moewyo;
mkvlelobis adgilas zeimi moewyo. ra SeiZleba moxdes axla? _ yvelafers viwyebT Tavidan, gvaqvs mcdeloba, kidev
erTxel davemsgavsoT civilur
saxelmwifos. ramdenad SesaZlebelia Tu ara es, am etapze
Zneli saTqmelia, es nel-nela
gamoikveTeba. jerjerobiT ivaniSvilis politikuri saxe ikveTeba, rogorc uaRresad racionaluri, gawonasworebuli
politikuri lideris. es damokidebulia imaze, samomavlod misi politikuri qmedebebi ramdenad iqneba mimarTuli Tanamedrove liberalurdemokratiuli saxelmwifos
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
ze
mSeneblobisken. misi ritorika
imedismomcemia, anu ritorikis,
Rirebulebebis doneze, racionalizmis xarisxis gaTvaliswinebiT, ivaniSvili dadebiTi
figuraa. magram realurad ra
moxdeba Zneli saTqmelia.
Tumca, mas gansxvavebiT
_T
patarkaciSvilisgan struqtu ra Camouyalibebeli aqvs. ramdenad imoqmedebs es misi gegmis sisruleSi moyvanaze?
_ patarkaciSvilis da ivaniSvilis Sedareba yovelTvis
xelovnuri mgonia. patarkaciSvili ivaniSvilisgan gansxvavebiT TviTon ar iyo politikuri lideri. patarkaciSvili
iyo politikuri procesis mastimulirebeli. patarkaciSvils hqonda garkveuli politikuri resursebi, romelic
gamoixateboda mis kontaqtebSi, finansur resursSi, mediasaSualebebSi. ivaniSvilma, dRes, Tavisi politikuri ganviTarebis am etapze, politikurad sul sxva realoba fulis,
media-resursis gareSe Seqmna.
mas, garda Tavisi pirovnebisa,
jer sxva araferi CaurTia am
procesSi. bunebrivia, xelisuflebac Zalian daexmara Tavisi ugunuri qmedebebiT. patarkaciSvilis dros sxva sqema moqmedebda, iyo ufro Zlieri opozicia. ivaniSvili ubralod gamoCnda da man Tqva,
rom is aris alternativa da
mxolod amis deklarirebiT
Seqmna alternatiuli realo-
ba; yvela danarCenma am alternatiuli gravitaciuli velis
garSemo triali daiwyo. anu
ivaniSvili Tavisi pirovnebiT
zemoqmedebs procesebze, patarkaciSvili ki procesze zemoqmedebda resursebiT. jerjerobiT ar gamoCenila ivaniSvilis arc finansuri da arc
sxva resursi, magram vxedavT,
rom realoba ukve Secvlila.
Tu ivaniSvili warmatebiT gaarTmevs Tavs Semdgom etapebs
_ struqturebis Seqmnas, mis
Sesabamis aRWurvas, mediis sakiTxis gadawvetas, mas bunebrivia seriozuli warmatebis
daviT usufaSvili: biZina ivaniSvilma
Tavisi pirveli preskonferenciiT, sazogadoebas Tavi gaacno, rogorc Zalian Cveulebrivma
da saqveyno saqmeebze dafiqrebulma adamianma
da ara _ mesiam,
romelsac yvela
kiTxvaze pasuxi
aqvs da yvela
problemis mogvarebis pirobas
iZleva.
vfiqrob, molodini gaamarTla, radgan datvirTuli
iyo
yvela SesaZlo
da araSesaZlo
teleNEWS
teleNEWS
teleNEWS
teleNEWS
teleNEWS
maia jabua,, momRerali: momRerlebma,
uamravma ansamblma gavaprotesteT xelisuflebis qmedeba ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg. zogierTi nawyenic ki darCa, rom ver moaxerxa TavianTi xelmoweris dafiqsireba. xelovnebis warmomadgenlebi Tavad iCenen iniciativas, rom CaerTon am protestSi.
sazogadoeba gamococxlebulia,
man gadaabija SiSs, radgan yvelafers
aqvs zRvari- SiSsac, moTmenasac
da dumilsac. gaCnda imedi da rwmena xalxSi.
am admianma moaxrxa
ndobis Zalian male
mopoveba adamianebSi.
xalxma icis mis mier
gakeTebuli saqvelmoqmedo saqmeebis Sesaxeb. Tumca didi finansebi yovelTvis yvelafers ar wyvets.
finansebi sxvebsac aqvT, magram survili ar aqvT, amdeni
sikeTe akeTon ase uangarod da CrdilSi dgomiT. CemSi yovelTvis aRtacebas iwvevda aseTi
adamianebi. albaT misi gakeTebuli saqmeebi
aris safuZveli im didi ndobisa, rac mas xalxma gamoucxada. rac Seexeba bankTan damdgar
rigebs, es aris is solidaroba, rac aqamomde
gvaklda
Cven.
sxva aris roca
adamianebi midian
mitingze, magram
rodesac sazogadoeba usamarTlobas upirispirdeba ase solidarulad, es
aris win gadadgmuli nabiji sazogadoebis ganviTarebaSi.
albaT adamianebi, romlebic dRes Tavs ikaveben TavianTi
poziciis dafiqsirebisgan, im dros elodebian, roca kargad gairkveva situacia da vis
mxares aris warmateba. es dro rom dadgeba,
SeiZleba mere erTmaneTs daaswron sityvis
Tqma.
me ar var is adamiani, romelic Zalian
swrafad iRebs gadawyvetilebas. yvela detals
da wvrilmans vaqcev yuradRebas. aranairi Sexeba ar mqonia baton biZinasTan, ar vekuTvni
maT, visac xelfass uxdida. Sesabamisad aranairi valdebuleba da davaleba mis mimarT ar
malaparakebs. ubralod, vakvirdebi am admians
da vTvli, rom rogorc momRerlisTvis ar
aris sakmarisi kargi xma da smena da arsebobs
uamravi komponenti, romelic aucilebelia xelovanisTvis, isea politikosic. am adamians ki
gaaCnia uamravi iseTi Tviseba, rac saWiroa,
rom iyos kargi, warmatebuli politikosi.
Tu davacdiT am admaians, is ityvis Tavis saTqmels.
teleNEWS
komponentebiT; aq vnaxeT seriozuli warmodgena im TvalsazrisiT, rom Jurnalistebis erTi nawili misuli iyo Tavisi saTqmelis saTqmelad da ara _ pasuxebis mosasmenad. es sruliad aSkara da TvalSisacemi iyo. ar mgonia,
rom am taqtikam gaamarTla da am gziT moxerxda biZina ivaniSvilis portretis gaubraloeba. piriqiT, is sakmaod mSvidad Sexvda am yvelafers.
ivaniSvilma ramdenjerme mianiSna, rom orientirebulia kompetenturi gundis Seqmnaze,
anu wesierebiT da moraluri kriteriumebiT
SerCeuli gundis imedad akeTebs im gancxadebebs, rasac akeTebs da ara mxolod piradi inteleqtualuri Tu finansuri resursis kvalobaze.
misi myari pozicia xelisuflebis arCevnebis gziT Secvlis Sesaxeb aris Zalian mniSvnelovani, raTa xelisuflebam ver moaxerxos
cnobili da nacadi strategiiT saqmis warmarTva, TiTqos, qarTul opoziciaSi mxolod revoluciaze orientirebuli marginalebi arian.
teleNEWS
lo statistikuri qarTveli
politikuri lideri. simSvide,
rac ivaniSvils gaaCnia, yuradRebismimqcevia. rodesac mas
pirdapir Seuracxyofas ayeneben
patara, ubedur dReSi Cagdebuli, daqiravebuli Jurnalistebi, kerZod, ekiTxebian _ aris
Tu ara igi kremlis bolo imedi? _ igi RimiliT pasuxobs da
eubneba _ nu RelavT, yvelaferi kargad iqneba, me vxvdebi
Tqven ra mZime dReSi xarTo.
aseTi tipis adamianis wyobidan
gamoyvana, misi strategiuli
xazis Secvla ar iqneba advili.
miTumetes, im gacveTili meTodebiT, rac albaT, ivaniSvilisTvis ukve kargad nacnobia.
_ xelisufleba SeiZleba
sust qmedebebs axorcielebs,
Tumca am mTavari oponentis
uyuradRebod mitoveba ar Rirs.
dRes aravis aqvs iluzia, rom
xelisuflebas sZinavs da igi
ivaniSvilis sawinaaRmdegod mimarTul nabijebs ar gadadgams.
rogor fiqrobT, kidev ra kontrdartymebi SeiZleba miayenos
xelisuflebam ivaniSvils?
_ ra Tqma unda kmayofileba
imiT, rom ivaniSvilisTvis xelisuflebis mier ganxorcielebuli Setevebi jerjerobiT
mxolod momgebiani da ara wamgebiani xiblia. SesaZloa isic,
rom kidev erTxel Sedges is
garigebebi, da viRacam saakaSvils ufleba misces ivaniSvils
ise moeqces, rogorc Cveulebriv qarTvels da ganaxorcielon mis mimarT Cveuli terori. ar vici sad da rogor dgeba es SeTanxmeba, es Zneli saTqmelia. magram aq, am frontze,
qarTul realobaSi ivaniSvili
Secdomas ar uSvebs.
Tamar SveliZe
manana berikaSvili,, reJisori: usamarTloba imdenad Zneli mosaTmenia, rom SiSsac
ki Zlevs. me piradad aRSfoTebuli var imis
gamo, rom biZina
ivaniSvils CamoarTves moqalaqeoba.
aRSfoTebuli var,
rac moxda misi
bankis winaaRmdeg
da minda e.w. inteligenciis
saxeliT, rogorc dRes gveZaxian, romelic Turme moqrTama ivaniSvilma,
ganvacxado,
rom
batonma biZinam eris saukeTeso nawili Tavis droze gadaarCina
da yvelafers daarqvan Tavisi saxeli. cota
koreqtulebi iyvnen TavianT gamonaTqvamebSi.
me ar var politologi, var xelovani da
vTvli rom Cemi saTqmeli SemoqmedebaSi unda
vTqva da ara raRac mosazrebebSi, radgan SeiZleba raime SemeSalos. Cems qveyanaSi ise ganviTarda movlenebi, bevri rame aRar momwonda,
gansakuTrebiT 2008 wlis mere, magram piki am
movlenebisa aris dRevandeli dRe.
me piradad
saerTod gacruebuli
mqonda imedi poziciazec da opoziciazec. magram gaCnda imedi, radgan biZina ivaniSvilma ganacxada,
davamTavroT es quCis aqciebi da mitingebi. batoni aris Zalian kargi adamiani, kargi biznesmeni, qvelmoqmedi da
xom maqvs ufleba, damacado,
raTa gavigo, rogori politikosi iqneba da gavakeTo Cemi arCevani. ra
aucilebelia CamoarTva
moqalaqeoba, Tavs daesxa
banks, iaraRi waarTva
dacvas, ratom xdeba es?.
CemTvis yvela adamiani
Zvirfasia, imisda miuxedavad sad dgas. aRar SemiZlia
es dapirispireba da Worebi.
xom SeiZleba ar gavlanZRoT, ar mivayenoT Seuracxyofa adamians. wynarad amixseniT da damimtkiceT, ratom aris ruseTis agenti.maSin
mec agenti gamovdivar, ruseTSi vswavlobdi
da Zalian bevri megobaric myavs iq.
biZina ivaniSvilis mosvla politikaSi
aris Zalian principuli, marTali, patiosani
adamianis mosvla, romelic Zalian waadgeba
rogorc politikur speqtrs da sazogadoebas,
aseve xelisuflebasac, romelsac es Tvisebebi
namdvilad aklia.
saintereso iyo gamogekiTxaT adamianebi,
romelTac „qarTuSi“ SehqondaT fuli. es xom
iyo Cveulebrivi sazogadoebis warmomadgenlebi da ara is xalxi, visac ivaniSvili xelfass
uxdida.
me ar maqvs safuZveli, ar davujero baton
biZinas, Tu ratom modis politikaSi. qveyanas
rom Svela sWirdeba, vinmes eWvi epareba? ratom unda SevboWoT adamiani, romelsac Zalian bevri kargi saqme aqvs gakeTebuli am qveynisTvis, gadadgas es nabiji da davinaxoT, ris
gakeTebas apirebs.
teleNEWS
pirvel rigSi es aris xalxi.
ramdenad daCagrulni, daterorebulnic ar unda viyoT, xelisuflebas gaazrebuli aqvs, rom
xalxis azri mniSvnelovania.
amitomac amuSavebs igi ase intensiurad ideologiur manqanas televiziebis saxiT. swored amitomac yovelTvis cdilobs garkveuli tipis piarkampaniis Catarebas politikuri
opoziciis mimarT. am TvalsazrisiT xelisufleba mkveTr minusebSia ivaniSvilTan. imitom,
rom xelisuflebis mxares aris
8-wliani kompromatebis tomebi
_ cemis, Cagvris, zombirebis,
omis wagebis, gaRatakebis da
a.S. sxvaTaSoris, xelisuflebis Secdoma isicaa, rom Tuki
dadebiTi ram gaukeTebiaT, esec
mxolod iZulebis formiT. ivaniSvilis mxares aris martivad
_ qvelmoqmedeba. meore _ Tu
xelisufleba mCagvrelia da
xalxs eubneba _ saxlSi Cumad
ijeqiT da rusul musikas nu
mousmenT, iazrovneT modelirebuli realobis formiTo, am
dros modis ivaniSvili da geubneba _ iyavi Tavisufali adamiani da iazrovne rogorc gindao. Semdegi momentia _ saerTaSoriso mxardaWera, rac arCevnebSi erT-erTi ganmsazRvreli faqtoria. Tuki adre gveubnebodnen ki, batono iyos nominalurad opozicia, magram Tuki
vinme realurad Tavs wamoswevs
TavSi Caartyi da Cven gagipravebTo, es faqtori ivaniSvilTan mimarTebaSi moxsnilia da
rogorc minimum ivaniSvils da
xelisuflebas Tanabari pirobebis moedani aqvT micemuli.
_ saubrisas Tqven axseneT,
rom biZina ivaniSvils imunite ti aqvs. rogorc cnobilia igi
xelisuflebis Secvlis momxre
mxolod arCevnebis gziTaa, rac
erT weliwadSi unda gaimarTos. rogor fiqrobT, ramdenad
gahyveba es imuniteti ivaniSvils arCevnebamde?
_ ramdenad gahyveba ivaniSvils arCevnebamde imuniteti,
CemTvis amis Tqma Znelia Tumca,
ivaniSvili iqceva rogorc uaRresad kanonmorCili adamiani,
igi jerjerobiT xelisuflebas
aranairi agresiis safuZvels ar
aZlevs. ivaniSvilis gansakuTrebiT didi pliusia is, rom
igi bvrad ufro gawonasworebulia, vidre nebismieri, saSua-
9
teleNEWS
winapiroba gaaCnia, radgan dRes
igi politikurad ukve warmatebulia.
_ sazogadoebas gasamarjveb lad ivaniSvilis 5 miliardis
imedi aqvs. Tumca, naklebi mi liardebi arc mis mTavar oponents xelisuflebas aqvs.
_ finansuri resursi, cxadia, aris faqtori, magram Znelia Tqva, ra rols TamaSobs
igi politikur pocesSi. politikuri warmatebis formula
bevri faqtorisgan Sedgeba.
saerTo gazeTi
teleNEWS
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
10 saerTo gazeTi
amas winaT erTi uxvtiraJiani da `neitraluri~ gazeTis TanamSromelma, axalgazrda qalbatonma Tqva _ marTalia, me politeqnikuri davamTavre, magram dRes Jurnalisti var. Cemi naSromebiT Jurnalistikis fakultetis studentebs aswavlian, rogorc
qarTuli Jurnalistikis saukeTeso nimuSebso...
marTlacda, sad imuSaos im
qalbatonma? teqnikuri dargis specialistebisTvis saqarTveloSi samuSao ar aris,
samagierod, arsebobs media,
romelic yvelas da yvelafers itevs...
* * *
im avadsaxsenebeli `vardebis revoluciis~ Semdeg xelisuflebaSi axalgazrdebi
movidnen. umaRlesi, sakanonmdeblo da aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebis berketebi mTlianad gadavida axali Taobis
xelSi. mediac gaTavisuflda
komunisturi marwuxebisgan da
laRad gaSala frTebi, revoluciuri talRiT mogvrili
siamovnebisgan SvebiT amoisunTqa...
saocrebebs da ucnaurobebs ra gamolevs saqarTveloSi, magram saintereso mainc
is aris, ras erCian Jurnalistebi ivaniSvils?
mokled, rac im dRes biznescentrSi moxda, yvelam sakuTari TvaliT naxa.
ra moxda, kolegebo, Tuki
namdvili Jurnalistebi, anu
miukerZoeblebi da damoukideblebi xarT, axali politikuri moTamaSis gamoCenam
Tqven ratom dagafrTxoT da
dagaSinaT ase, guli yelSi
rom gqondaT mobjenili da
rom xtunavdiT, Tqvenc es
mTavroba xom ara xarT, safrTxe rom danaxeT alternatiuli Zalis gamoCenisas?
bedma dagvifaros da, zogi
faruli da zogi aSkara miSistebi xom ar iyaviT im
dRes iq Tavmoyrili? arada,
Jurnalisti rom aravis momxre ar unda iyos?
ki, opoziciam dakarga qalwuloba miSasTan, magram qarTuli Jurnalistikac xom ar
gminavs, netav, miSas buduarSi?
im darbazSi im dRes, sxvaTa Soris, TiTo-orola mediajgufi iyo, romelic neitralurad, damkvirveblis TvaliT uyurebda ivaniSvils.
`mtrebi~ meti iyvnen. ra aris
es? lustracia?
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
`meoTxe~, anu gvelsa
xvreliT amoiyvans
joxi SeCxikinebuli...
Tu Jurnalistebi iq imitom iyvnen, rom xalxisTvis
miewodebinaT
informacia,
xalxma veraferi gaigo ivaniSvilisgan, radgan xelCarTul
Cxubs, kinklaobas da JiJilxivils Tavi ver daaRwies da
`gamocda~, romelic TiTqos
ivaniSvilisTvis unda CaetarebinaT, Jurnalistebma ver
Caabares...
araa ivaniSvilSi saqme, davaneboT Tavi konkretul pirebs _ 1 noembers ivaniSvils
rom etitinebodiT, gamodiT
erTi, ramdeni gaubedavT saakaSvils erT Tamam SekiTxvas
mainc...
* * *
erTi 88 wlis loginad Cavardnili kaci gvirekavs redaqciaSi yoveldRe. batoni
vaJa, romelic veraze, yofili
belinskis quCaze cxovrobs,
yovel darekvaze wuxs, unda
avdge da samarTali gavark-
vioo. geRimebaT, Tqven, baton
vaJaze, ara? im adamians guli
miuwevs simarTlis gasarkvevad da visac SeuZlia amis gakeTeba, isini miSas dakrulze
cekvaven.
zogierTi
Jurnalisti
`vardebis revoluciis~ didebulad dagvirgvinebis Semdeg
`redisonSi~ gamarTuli grandiozuli `samaRariCo~ sufridan `revoluciaSi~ monawileobisTvis cincxali `nivebiT~ dasaCuqrebuli dabrunebula saxlSi. aba, amis mere
rogor
SeiZleba
miSas
`mters~ yelSi ar ece gamosaRadravad. miT umetes es mteri da mowinaaRmdege saqarTvelos `damaqcevari~, `qvewarmavali~ biZina ivaniSvili Tua?!
xalxo, is mainc ar gagigoniaT, `gvelsa xvreliT amoiyvans ena tkbilad moubario~?
Cemi istoriis maswavlebeli, araCveulebrivad enamoswrebuli, cxonebuli karlo
mamalaZe am andazas aseTi
interpretaciiT ambobda: `gvelsa xvreliT amoiyvans joxi
SeCxikinebulio~. ra joxiT
da mikrofoniT misdevT am
adamians, Tu aseTi vaJkacebi
iyaviT, `imedSi~ rom scemes,
begves da dawamles Jurnalistebi Tqveni Sefebis Tqvennairma xelqveiTebma, maSin ratom ar amoiReT xma da ase
erTbaSad ratom ar SeutieT
Tqveni kolegebisa da saerTod, marTali sityvis damTrgunvelebs.
simarTle isaa, rom krizisi qarTul JurnalistikaSi,
romelze saubaric, ratomRac
momakvdinebel codvad iTvleba, 2003 wlidan ar dawyebula. ra memkvidreobac miiRo
qarTulma mediam, imas veraferi miumata, piriqiT, ufro gaacamtvera da miwasTan gaaswora Jurnalistis saxeli.
I arxis TanamSromelma
axalgazrda Jurnalistma rom
erT momitinges sastikad scema, xelisuflebam daawinaura
da I arxidan SedarebiT usafrTxo da Tbil adgilas gadaiyvana.
mTavari kanoni, rasac Jurnalistma arasdros unda uRalatos _ ar unda gaxdes vin-
mes mexotbe, arc aSkara da
arc faruli mxardamWeri.
amiT is informaciis obieqturobas did zians ayenebs.
simarTle unda vTqva: 1 noembers biZina ivaniSvilma moaxerxa srulad warmoeCina qarTuli Jurnalistikis gaRatakebuli da ubadruki saxe...
Jurnalistika, anu meoTxe
xelisufleba dRes Zalad ga-
ficxebul-gawiwmatebuli nino
gomarTelia, romelsac davaleba aqvs Sesasrulebeli,
qarTuli Jurnalistika dRes
aris lika beraia, romelic
mikrofons malavs qvedatanis
qveS, raTa ar waarTvan da mere gauazrebeli, meqanikuri
SekiTxvebi dasvas...
qarTuli
Jurnalistika
aris gamomcemloba `samSoblodan~ mujlugunebiT gamoyrili
JurnalistTa mTeli wyeba,
romlebic ignorirebulni da
ugulebelyofilni arian...
me var Jurnalisti...
magram me ar var `meoTxe~...
vxedav da vwer, rom dang-
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
ze
reulia qveyana, ispoba ena,
sarwmunoeba, xelidan gvecleba samSoblo. da me, rogorc
Jurnalisti, var meoTxe xelisufleba?..
* * *
axlaxan wavikiTxe Jurnali `tabula~, romelic inteligents warsulis gadmonaSTad miiCnevs da TiTqmis antikvarad Tvlis. didi eWvi
maqvs, qarTuli mediis umetesi nawilic ase fiqrobs.
inteligenti aris, sxvaTa
Soris, TviTon Jurnalisti,
magram, rogorc ivaniSvilis
biznes-centrSi kidev erTxel
damtkicda, samwuxarod, qarTvelma Jurnalistebma jer ar
ician, rom ar arian arc yaCaRebi, arc CamSvebebi, arc Ssss pagoniani jaSuSebi, aramed
arian, pirvel rigSi, inteligentebi...
Tumca maT jer ar ician
amis Sesaxeb...
arc uTxraT, daumaleT,
jerjerobiT, Torem, visac
sindisi kidev SerCa, Zalian
Sercxveba...
sindisze gamaxsenda, saqarTveloSi, netavi, ramdeni
Jurnalisti ityvis, rom mis
profesiaSi es gasacodavebuli sindisi saWiro aris?
albaT, Zalian cota da
vinc ityvis, isic ar iqneba
agulwrfeli...
* * *
rogorc SevityveT, male
biZina ivaniSvili samoqalaqo
moZraobas Seqmnis, arCevnebamde ki jer kidev droa, nacmoZraobas odnav patara diskomforti ki Seeqmna ivaniSvilis gamocxadebiT, magram, didad ar Sewuxebulan, rogorc
etyoba, nacebi kidev karga
xans ibogineben... saxelisuflebo kastad Camoyalibebul
Jurnalistebsac Tavisuflebis sio kidev didxans ar daufrTxobs simSvides da demagogiis
sazRvaric
kvlav
usazRvro darCeba maTTvis. maTi zRapari aq ar mTavrdeba,
rogorc ivaniSvilis prescentris xelmZRvanelis irakli
tripolskis cxonebuli mama
iakob tripolski amTavrebda
xolme I arxze saRamos zRapris moyolas: `mSvid Zils
gisurvebT, Cemo patara gogocuneboo~!...
simSvides gisurvebT, jerjerobiT...
iranda kalandaZe
saerTo gazeTi 11
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
paarizi. baank `rosiiski kreditis~
daamaaarsebeli daa mflobeli boris
ivaaniSvili erT-eerTi yvelaaze idumaalebiT moculi mewaarmeaa ruseTSi. igi
praaqtikulaad ar monaawileobdaa saajaaro RonisZiebebSi, araasodes miuciaa
interviu.
raas saaqmiaanobdaa ivaaniSvili gaareSe
Tvaals miRmaa?
qonebaas agrovebdaa.
axlaaxaan Jurnaalmaa `forbsmaa~ misi
qonebaa 2,6 miliaard dolaaraad Seaafaasaa; Tumcaa Taavaad ivaaniSvilis sityvebiT Tu vimsjelebT, `roskreditis~
mepaatrone 5 miliaardze meti Rirs.
SaarSaan mis bizness gaardaamtexi xaanaa
daaudgaa. msxvili saamrewvelo aqtivebis _ stoilenskisaa daa mixaailovskis
saamTo-ggamaamdidrebeli kombinaatebis
gaayidviT 2 miliaarze meti iSovaa. es
sruliaad moulodneli aRmoCndaa araa
maarto baazris monaawileebisTvis, araamed maaTTvisaac, vinc ivaaniSvils icnobdaa. raatom moiqcaa ase, rogor apirebs miRebuli Taanxis gaankaargvaas _
amis Sesaaxeb biZinaa ivaaniSvilmaa `vedomostis~ Taavisi cxovrebis maanZilze micemul pirvel interviuSi piraadaad uaambo.
redaqciisagan: biZina ivaniSvilis interviu, romelsac `saerTo gazeTis~ dRevandel nomerSi gTavazobT, gazeT `vedomostSi~
2005 wlis 7 aprils gamoqveynda da imTaviTve sazogadoebis didi interesi gamoiwvia.
miuxedavad imisa, rom didi xnis ganmavlobaSi es iyo biZina ivaniSvilis erTaderTi
interviu, misi sruli teqsti qarTul enaze
ar Targmnila da ar gamoqveynebula (daibeWda
mxolod mcire fragenti).
marTalia, intervius gamoqveynebidan eqvsma welma gaiara da am xnis ganmavlobaSi, cxadia, bevri ram Seicvala, magram, vfiqrobT es
interviu mainc uaRresad mniSvnelovani dokumentia, Tundac imis dasturad, rom biZina ivaniSvili eqvsi wlis winaTac, anu maSin, rodesac politikaSi mosvlas arc apirebda, imave
Rirebulebebsa da faseulobebs emsaxureboda,
romelTa damkvidrebas dRes, rogorc politikosi, qarTul sinamdvileSi cdilobs.
aqve gTavazobT biZina ivaniSvilis mcire
komentars am interviusTan dakavSirebiT:
`bednieri var, rom sufTa warsuli maqvs
da garwmunebT, xelisuflebis ideologebs
_ Tqven arasodes migiciaT interviu da Tqveni samewarmeo sawqmianobis dasawyisidanve CrdilSi yofnas
amjobinebdiT. ras ukavSirdeba aseTi
gasaidumloeba?
_ me marTlac ar var sajaro
adamiani, rac mxolod da mxolod
Cems xasiaTs ukavSirdeba. ar miyvars
JurnalistebTan Sexvedra, TavSeyris adgilebSi yofna. iq niRbis
morgebaa saWiro, me ki ver vitan
formalobebs. ar msurs vakeTo iseTi ram, rac Cems Tavisuflebas zRudavs. zogadad, ar miyvars yuradRebis centrSi yofna, arc dResaswaulebi, sakuTar dabadebis dResac ki
arasdros vixdi.
_ riTi SeiZleba avxsnaT, rom
`rosiiski krediti~ da `metaloin-
`ar megona, rom
miliarderi
gavxdebodi~
vesti~ arc ki adasturebdnen, rom es
struqturebi Tqven gekuTvniT?
_ arasodes damirRvevia kanoni da
dasamalic araferi maqvs. ubralod,
`perestroikis~ dasawyisSive, Cven
yvelani, biznesmenebi, samwuxarod,
daZabulad vcxovrobdiT imis gamo,
TavianTi mcdelobani sikeTes ver moutans.
mudmivad iseT gvarebs atrialeben, romelic
cnobili araa saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis.
mudmivad cdiloben, xalxs eWvi gauCinon Cemze.
erTaderT interviuSi, romelic gazeT
`vedomosts~ miveci, yvela es gvaria dasaxelebuli da pasuxic iqvea gacemuli. es ambavi karga xania warsuls Cahbarda. Jurnalistebma maSin verc erTi Savi xazi ver mipoves. erTi Tve
ar beWdavdnen Cems intervius. ver warmoedginaT, rom ruseTSi SeiZleboda aseTi kaci yofiliyo, Tanac qarTuli gvariT. rogorc aq ar
vCndebodi, ufro metad ar vCandi ruseTSi.
didxans elodnen Cem gamoCenas, amis Semdgom
yvela sainformacio saSualebam gaaSuqa es interviu, grami eWvic ki aravis Seutania Cems
naTqvamSi, radgan interviuSi imdenad gulwrfelad maqvs pasuxebi gacemuli, eWvis natamalic ki ar rCeboda.~
darwmunebuli varT, es interviu biZina
ivaniSvilis oponentebs erTxel da samudamod
daukargavs usafuZvlo braldebebis da samarcxvino Woraobis xasiaTs.
rom SesaZloa, Cvens bizness rame damuqreboda. Tuki sakuTari personiTa
da qonebiT yuradRebas ar miipyrobdi, biznesis marTvac ufro mSvidad
SeiZleboda.
_ 90-iiani wlebis dasawyisSi ruseTSi marTlac daZabuli mdgomareoba iyo, magram sazRvargareT yvela
biznesmeni
rodi
miemgzavreboda
TqvensaviT. rodis waxvediT qveynidan
da ratom?
_ ruseTidan pirvelad 1993
wels, saqarTveloSi Cemi Zmis gatacebis Semdeg wavedi. misTvis gamosasyids iTxovdnen. erTi Tve hyavdaT,
magram gamosasyidi ar gadamixdia,
radganac analogiur safrTxeSi Cavagdebdi Cems mSoblebs, debs. SemdgomSi maTTvis xeli aravis uxlia.
CemTan ki saqarTvelodan sxvadasxva
saxelmwifo moxele Camodioda, romlebic Cemi Zmis moZebnaSi daxmarebas
cdilobdnen, TanamSromlobas mTavazobdnen. ar msurda maTi SemoSveba
Cems biznesSi da maTTan urTierTobis
Tavidan asacileblad gadavwyvite,
formalurad banks CamovSorebodi:
ganvacxade, rom bankis prezidentis
Tanamdebobas vtovebdi, 1994 wels ki
6 TviT ojaxTan erTad axlobelTan
amerikis SeerTebul StatebSi gavemgzavre. saqarTvelSi viTareba ar iyo
mSvidi, TiTqos sazRvargareT ufro
SeiZleboda wynarad cxovreba; vfiqrobdiT, Svilebis gulisTvis, maTi
momavlisTvis egeb Rirdes aqedan gamgzavreba. virCevdiT qveyanas, romelic yvelaze metad mogvewoneboda.
safrangeTi SevarCieT, parizis siaxloves saxli viyideT. Tumca iq mudmivad ar vcxovrobdiT, biznesis gamo, gansakuTrebiT ki defoltis Semdeg, ZiriTadad moskovSi gviwevda
yofna.
_ miuxedavad amisa, safrangeTis
moqalaqeoba mainc miiReT?
_ colma da Svilebma miiRes, me _
ara, radgan es did dros wamarTmevda: gasaubreba da aTasi sxva ram iyo
saWiro.
_ ar nanobT, rom adre intervius
ar iZleodiT? nuTu gulgrilad
uyurebdiT imas, rasac Tqvenze werdnen?
_ rasakvirvelia, ara. ruseTis
masmediisgan gansxvavebiT, qarTvel
JurnalistTa mudmivi yuradRebis
centrSi viyavi. zogierTi maTgani dasabeWdad iyenebda masalas internetidan, sadac karga xnis ganmavlobaSi
ganTavsebuli iyo TiTqosda jguf
`mostis~ usafrTxoebis samsaxuris
monacemebze dayrdnobiT Sedgenili
Cemi dosie. odesRac seriozul konkurencias vuwevdiT `most-banks~,
amitomac ar iyo gasakviri, rom es
dosie `rosiiski kreditsa~ da piradad Cemze aTasgvar sisuleles Seicavda, Tanac es yvelaferi kriminaluri Jargonis gamoyenebiT iwereboda. dosie imdenad araseriozuli iyo,
rom igi ruseTis arc erT gazeTs ar
gamouyenebia. SevardnaZis dros qarTveli Jurnalistebi ganurCevlad
lanRavdnen yvelas da maT Soris mec,
amitomac maT statiebs yuradRebas
ar vaqcevdi. axali xelisuflebis
mosvlidan erT weliwadSi Cem Sesaxeb werilebis gamoqveyneba ganaxlda
da swored maSin pirvelad movaxdine
maTze reagireba: SarSan, noemberSi,
Cems samsaxurebs davavale gaegoT,
ras warmoadgendnen im internet-saitis mflobelebi, sadac es dosie iyo
12 gv.
12 saerTo gazeTi
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
11 gv.
ganTavsebuli. pirvelwyaros mflobelebma _ gamoZiebis federalurma saagentom _ amoiRo dosie da bodiSic
moixada.
_ anu, rac iq weria, simarTle ar
aris?
_ im dosies mTavari `sensacia~ is
aris, TiTqos me oTar kvantriSvilTan viyavi dakavSirebuli, yalbi avizoebiT da msgavsi erToblivi saqmianobiT viyaviT dakavebuli. es sruli
bodvaa. 90-iani wlebis dasawyisSi,
roca bankebis umravlesoba, maT Soris saxelmwifo bankebic, waleka
yalbma avizoebma (romelTa meSveobiTac saxelmwifo biujetidan aTobiT
miliardi dolari moipares), didi
Zalisxmevis fasad movaxerxe, rom
`rosiiski krediti~ gamyalbebelTa
saqmianobas win aRdgomoda. Cemi banki
aRmoCnda erTaderTi, romelsac arc
erTi avizo ar gautarebia.
kvantriSvilis, benduqiZis, maRraZis, seliaSvilis gundTan Cemi dakavSireba aseTive bodvaa. arc erT maTgans ar vicnobdi. qarTvel Jurnalistebs, romlebsac dRemde mosvenebas ar aZlevT kvantriSvilTan Cemi
urTierTobis eWvi, SeeZloT CaetarebinaT arc ise rTuli Jurnalisturi
gamoZieba, daewyoT Tundac kvantriSvilis cnobili axloblebisgan. arc
saqarTveloSi, arc ruseTSi problemas ar warmoadgens kvantriSvilis
naTesavebis, megobrebis, `rosiiski
kreditis~ TanamSromelTa moZebna.
dae, ipovon Tundac erTi mowme an
mtkicebuleba, rom piradad me an Cems
struqturebs kvantriSvilTan iotisodena Sexeba mainc gvqonia! arian
iseTi qarTveli Jurnalistebi, romlebic Cemze saubrisas iyeneben aseT
gamoTqmas _ `vinme ivaniSvili~, sxvebi weren, rom me `saorientaciod~
Tbilisis saxelmwifo universiteti
davamTavre, zogierTi Cemi gvaris
xsenebisas sxvis fotoebs beWdavs.
JurnalistTa sxva kategoria im biznes-centrs, romelsac TbilisSi vaSeneb, saroskipos uwodeben. ra aerTianebT maT? yvelani TiTqos uaRresad aRSfoTebuli arian, rom Cemze
informaciis mopoveba uWirT. es xom
mzakvrobaa. qarTvelze, romelic daibada saqarTveloSi, romelsac mSoblebi, uamravi naTesavi da megobari
hyavs, absoluturad yvelafris gageba SeiZleba, Tanac uswrafesad. arasodes mimimarTavs sasamarTlosTvis
Cemi Rirsebisa da pativis dasacavad,
radgan arasodes damikargavs arc erTi,
yovelTvis sindisis karnaxiT
vcxovrobdi.
`armirebuli Slangebis
gamoSveba mindoda~
_ romeli qveynis moqlaqe xarT?
_ ruseTisa da saqarTvelosi.
_ axla sad cxovrobT?
_ momenatra saqarTvelo da erTi
wlis win ojaxTan erTad sacxovreblad gadavedi im sofelSi, sadac bavSvoba gavatare. ojaxi CemTvis upirvelesia. mamaCemi axlaxan gardaicvala, deda xanSiSesulia, mominda mis
gverdiT yofna. axali sacxovrebeli
im saxlis gverdiT avaSene, sadac
mSoblebTan erTad vcxovrobdi. vfiqrob, iq karga xniT davsaxldi.
_ gviambeT, ras saqmianobdiT, vidre `roskredits~ daafuZnebdiT?
_ me qalaq WiaTuris axlos, so-
fel WorvilaSi davibade. mamaCemi meSaxted muSaobda `WiaTurmarganecSi~, romelic, sxvaTaA Soris, axlaxan rusulma `evrazholdingma~ iyida. skolis damTavrebis Semdeg TbilisSi wavedi _ Tbilisis saxelmwifo universitetSi sainJinro-ekonomikur fakultetze vswavlobdi, imavdroulad kamos saxelobis samsxmelo-meqanikur qarxanaSi vmuSaobdi
damlageblad, damxmare muSad, SemdgomSi ki _ mxexavad. universiteti
warmatebiT davamTavre da samuSaod
imave qarxanaSi davrCi, oRond _ jer
ufros inJinrad, Semdeg ki Sromis
mecnieruli organizaciis laboratoriis ufrosad. 1982 wels moskovSi
gavemgzavre Sromis samecniero-kvleviTi institutis aspiraturaSi saswavleblad, ramdenime wlis Semdeg
davicavi disertacia specialobiT
`Sromis mecnieruli organizacia da
ekonomika~. TbilisSi samecnierokvleviTi institutis adgilobriv
ganyofilebaSi davbrundi. da maleve
Cemi pirveli biznesis organizeba daviwye.
_ rogor gagiCndaT biznesis
idea?
_ ras warmoadgenda 80-iani wlebis bolos ufrosi mecnier-muSaki?
arc saintereso samuSao iyo da arc
perspeqtivas uCanda piri. bina ar
mqonda, arc ojaxi, samsxmelo-meqanikuri qarxnis saerTo sacxovrebelSi
vcxovrobdi. rasakvirvelia, maSin azradac ar momsvlia, rom banks davaarsebdi da miliarderi gavxdebodi.
ubralod, mqonda survili, fuli meSova. gadavwyvite, gamomeSva im droisTvis deficituri armirebuli
Slangebi. davaregistrire kooperativi, kamos saxelobis qarxanaSi Senoba ijariT aviRe da warmoebisTvis
mzadebas Sevudeqi. saRamoobiT Tavad
vCarxavdi saWiro detalebs, magram
Slangebis gamoSvebamde saqme ar misula _ kompiuterebiT vaWrobas movkide xeli.
_ ratom maincdamainc kompiuterebi?
_ vaanalizebdi, savaWro sferoSi
ra iqneboda warmatebis momtani da
davaskveni _ momavali kompiuterebs
ekuTvnoda. maTze moTxovnileba didi
iyo, magram Sovna Wirda.
davukavSirdi sazRvargareT wasul nacnob Tbilisel ebraelebs,
romlebsac gauxardaT biznesis wamowyeba. kompiuterebis gamogzavna
daiwyes, pirvelma saqarTvelos mecnierebaTa akademiam iyida; magram saqarTvelos prokuraturas ar moewona Cemi aqtiuroba, is, rom pirvelive garigebiT Cemi kooperativis angariSze erT milion rublze meti Cairicxa da prokuraturam Cems angariSebs yadaRa daado. mivxvdi, aq gasaqans ar momcemdnen da moskovSi gadabargeba gadavwyvite.
jer kidev aspiranturaSi swavlisas gavicani vitali malkini, romelic maSin moskovis rkinigzis institutis aspiranti iyo. erT students
me maTematikaSi vuwevdi repetitorobas, vitali _ fizikaSi. roca
moskovSi davbrundi, malkini ukve
CarTuli iyo biznesSi _ raRacis gadayidviT iyo dakavebuli, kafes gaxsnas cdilobda, magram me organizebuli biznesi _ kompiuterebiT vaWroba SevTavaze.
malkins rkinigzis institutidan
hyavda megobrebi _ docenti sergei
mosini da aleqsandr briancevi. isini
naro-fominskSi saTburebs aSenebdnen,
maT kooperativi `agroprogresi~
hqondaT. axali kooperativis daregistrirebaze dro rom ar daxarjuliyo, `agroprogresis~ meSveobiT
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
ze
vvaWrobdiT. yvelas Tanabari wili
gvqonda. es iyo 1988 weli. ulifto
SenobaSi, mexuTe sarTulze, samoTaxian binaSi erTi oTaxi viqiraveT _
es iyo Cveni ofisic da sawyobic.
sruli svliT miiwevda biznesi win,
romelic im dros sxvanairad ewyoboda: bevri ram ndobas efuZneboda, did
Tanxas winaswar vricxavdiT. SemdgomSi vaWroba daviwyeT agreTve qseroqsebiT, magnitofonebiTa da telefonebiT.
imdroindel moskovSi uamravi
ucxoeli cxovrobda, romlebic
aTasnair saqonels gvTavazobdnen, piradad CemTan jgrod, jguf-jgufad
modiodnen, magram vxedavdi, rom yvelani TaRliTebi iyvnen. amitomac
Cvenve wavediT sazRvargareT partniorebis mosaZebnad. SevityveT, rom parizSi mimdinareobda maRalteqnologiuri produqciis gamofena. swored
iq davekontaqteT honkongis erT-erT
firmas da maTTan gavemgzavreT _
garwmunebT, Cven viyaviT pirveli
biznesmenebi ruseTidan, romlebic
honkongSi Cavidnen. maTTan gavaformeT Cveni pirveli didi kontraqti.
teqnikas mTlianad CineTSi amzadebdnen, gavriskeT da CineTSi Rilakebiani telefonebisa da kasetiani magnitofonebis fabrika SeviZineT. 1990
wels Cveni kompania erT-erTi udidesi iyo eleqtronuli teqnikiT vaWrobis dargSi, Tumca sxvebic mixvdnen, rom es momgebiani biznesi iyo da
amitomac gadavwyviteT, sxva saqme wamogvewyo. swored im periodSi gaCnda pirveli kerZo bankebi, 1990 wels
`rosiiski krediti~ davaregistrireT.
_ eleqtronuli teqnikiT vaWrobis garda, sxva biznesic gqondaT?
bankis Seqmnisas ra kapitali daagroveT?
_ sxva biznesi ar gvqonia. `rosiiski kreditis~ gaxsnisas 100-120
aTasi dolari gvqonda. es didi fuli iyo, amiT ramdenime bankis gaxsna
SeiZleboda. briancevi am saqmeSi ar
gamogvyva, gviTxra, uamisodac mdidari varo da saTburebis mSenebloba
ganagrZo. me, malkinma da mosinma wili Tanabrad gavinawileT. SemdgomSi
mosinis wili gamovisyide da amgvarad, me bankis 67 procenti mekuTvnoda, malkins _ 33 procenti.
_ ra wili aqvs axla malkins banksa da samrewvelo sawarmoebSi?
_ man Tavisi wili orive bankSi
SeinarCuna, zogierT samrewvelo
obieqtSi misi wili ki axlaxan gamovisyide.
`Cven, ubralod, imas
vakeTebdiT, rasac
sxvebi ar akeTebdnen~
_ gviambeT, rogor daiwyeT sabanko biznesi, rogor moaxerxa `rosiiski kreditma~, liderebSi moxvedriliyo?
_ bankis pirveli ofisi sabavSvo
baRis SenobaSi ganvaTavseT da dReRameSi 24-ive saaTi vmuSaobdiT. vidre bankSi asamde TanamSromeli iyo,
nebismier, Tundac umniSvnelo gadawyvetilebas piradad me viRebdi.
maSin krediti yovelgvari uzrunvelyofis gareSe gaicemoda, SesaZlebeli iyo, igi ar daebrunebinaT, amitomac TviTon unda gadamewyvita,
visTvis migveca krediti da visTvis
_ ara. Cven, ubralod, imas vakeTeb-
saerTo gazeTi 13
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
diT, rasac sxvebi ar akeTebdnen. naRdi fulis (valutis) gayidvis moculobis TvalsazrisiT pirvelebi viyaviT: Cven, magaliTad, sagangebod vukveTavdiT dolaris axal kupiurebs,
vxsnidiT valutis sacalo gayidvis
sabiTumo centrebs.
saerTodac, maSin bevr rames intuicia wyvetda. maSinve mivxvdi, rom
fsoni filialebis qselze unda dagvedo. saamisod unda mogvegvarebina
ori sakvanZo problema _ mogveZebna
Senoba da kadrebi. erTxel, mTeli
Ramis ganmavlobaSi vfiqrobdi amis
Sesaxeb, diliT ki mzad mqonda gadawyvetileba. Cven mivdiodiT sawarmoebis, institutebis direqtorebTan
da vTanxmdebodiT _ isini gamogviyofdnen Senobas, Cven ki maT organizaciebs bankis mewileobas vTavazobdiT (2-2 procents vaZlevdiT), SemdgomSi isini Cveni klientebi xdebodnen. me davaarse pirveli sabanko
koleji ruseTSi, romelic Cveni bankis momaval TanamSromlebs amzadebda. pirvel etapze leqciebsac Tavad
vkiTxulobdi. Tumca yvelaze mTavari, riTac vamayob, is aris, rom bankSi SevqmeniT unikaluri korporaciuli suliskveTeba, maSindel TanamSromelTa umravlesoba dResac bankSi
muSaobs.
_ Tqven periodulad miemgzavrebodiT qveynidan, bolo weliwad-nnaxevari ki mudmivad cxovrobT saqarTveloSi. rogor marTavT bizness, ra
sakiTxebs wyvetT piradad Tqven?
_ `rosiiski kreditis~ Seqmnis
dRidan moyolebuli dRevandlamde,
me erTdroulad misi aqcioneric var
da top-menejeric, ruseTSi sxvanairad ar SeiZleba. banki davaarse Tu
ara, pirveli 4 weliwadi piradad vakontrolebdi yvelafers, rac iq
xdeboda. roca biznesi gafarTovda,
marTvis kolegialuri stili davnerge. axla, umeteswilad, strategiuli
sakiTxebis mogvarebaze var koncentrirebuli, magram vici yvelaferi, Tu
ra xdeba biznesis yvela mimarTulebiT. axlac ki, sadac unda vimyofebode, yoveldRiurad sul cota 4 saaTs samuSao sakiTxebis mogvarebas
vandomeb.
_ ra funqciebi hqonda malkins?
_ igi warmomadgenlobiT funqciebs asrulebda: warmoadgenda banks
saxelmwifo struqturebSi, Cem magivrad dadioda formalur Sexvedrebze, araformalur RonisZiebebze.
igi arasodes wyvetda, forsirebulad biznesis ra mimarTuleba unda
ganviTarebuliyo, raze gveTqva uari,
ra gveyida, ra gagveyida, rogor SegverCia kadrebi da ranairad gvemarTa
igi. es Cemi gasakeTebeli iyo, vitalim TviTonac icoda, rom am sakiTxebSi kompetenturi ar iyo.
orivem erTad daviwyeT biznesi,
maSin aravin icoda, ra SeeZlo mas.
vitali Cemi megobaria, mas arasodes
uRalatia CemTvis, amitomac igi
kvlavac Cemi partnioria, me ki moxaruli var, rom megobari mdidar kacad vaqcie.
_ vasili anisimovs, romelsac
`rosiiski kreditSi~ vice-pprezidentis Tanamdeboba ekava, bankSi wili
hqonda?
_ anisimovis kuTvnili qarxnebi
msxvili klientebi iyvnen bankisa,
magram igi misi mesakuTre arasodes
yofila. me partniorebi myavda sam-
rewvelo sawarmoebSi, bankSi ki, Tu
ar CavTvliT maT, vinc Senobis sanacvlod wili miiRo, Tanamflobeli
mxolod malkini gaxldaT. TiToeul
msvil klients mewileoba surda,
magram yvelas uariT vistumrebdi. saerTod, vcdilob, partniorobas Tavi
avarido. CemTvis partniori Zalzed
seriozuli sakiTxia, Tanac arsebobs
riski, rom partniori mogatyuebs.
_ roca Tqven bizness iwyebdiT,
nebismieri struqtura, romelic
fuls Soulobda, banditebis yuradRebas ipyrobda. Tqven Tu gadawydomixarT msgavs problemebs?
axerxa, oqros bazarze msxvili moTamaSe gamxdariyo, mogvianebiT ki biCkovi bankis vice-pprezidentad dainiSna.
_ bankTan biCkovis kavSirs Sesabamisi saxelmwifo uwyeba amowmebda da
ver moZebna veranairi darRveva, rac
mas, rogorc Cinovniks, SeeZlo mosvloda. biCkovi bankisTvis sasargeblo
mxolod imiT aRmoCnda, rom oriode
klienti SesZina mas.
_ `rosiiski krediti~ da `metaloinvesti~ bevr mravalprofilian
aqtivs flobda. romeli biznesi aRmoCnda yvelaze ufro momgebiani?
_ banks giravnobis auqcionebSi
gancxadeba imitom ki ar Sehqonda,
rom gasayid aqtivebze kontroli moepovebina, aramed imisTvis, rom auqcionebi CaeSala. Cven rom mogvego,
aqciebs saxelmwifos davubrunebdiT.
maSin komunistebi privatizacias
utevdnen, giravnobis auqcionebi maT
mniSvnelovan `kozirs~ aZlevda, arsebobda riski, rom isini mTlianad
privatizaciis process CaSlidnen.
privatizaciis kanonebi xom naCqarevad iwereboda, arasrulyofili iyo,
xolo giravnobis auqcionze qonebis
gayidva sulac ukanonoba iyo.
`ar megona, rom
miliarderi
gavxdebodi~
_ Cven metismetad adre daviwyeT kompiuterebis biznesi, reketirebi im dros Tvlemdnen da is
momenti ubralod gamorCaT. bankSi
ki marTlac gvqonda msgavsi problemebi. erTi ram SesaniSnavad vici: sakmarisia, erTxel gaurigde
maT (banditebs) da samudamod daukavSirdebi. gavuZeli da sxvaTa
Soris, Cemi mTavari damsaxurebaa,
rom Cems biznesSi ar SemomiSvia
aravin, vinc banditad miaCniaT.
mogvianebiT vTanamSromlobdi samarTaldamcav
struqturebTan.
1993 wels, ruseTis organizebul
danaSaulTan brZolis sammarTvelos (ÐÓÁÎÏ) xelmZRvanelis
vladimir ruSailos TanadgomiT
(igi Cemi Zmis povnaSi damexmara),
am sammarTveloSi Cemi iniciativiT
Seiqmna struqtura, romelsac Cemi
banki, mogvianebiT ki bevri sxva
komerciuli struqturac afinansebda. sakmarisi iyo dagvereka, rom
misi TanamSromlebi umal adgilze
mosuliyvnen. es struqtura didi
xnis ganmavlobaSi efeqtianad muSaobda. 1997 wels kreditebis daubruneblobis problemas gadavawydiT; imis nacvlad, rom dagvxmarebodnen, am sammarTvelos TanamSromlebi Cveni mevaleebisgan qrTams iRebdnen. amis gamo am struqturis maSindel xelmZRvanels aleqsandr kaCuras vuTxari, rom TanamSromlobas
vwyvetdi.
_ magram im dros xom SeuZlebeli iyo biznesis warmarTva, Tuki saxelmwifo moxeleebsa da imave banditebs Soris `kriSa~ ar geqnebodaT?
_ SesaZlebeli ki iyo, magram
imavdroulad _ rTulic. Cveni banki
arasodes moiazreboda egreT wodebul `blatian~ bankebs Soris. gadaricxvebis raodenobiT `rosiiski
krediti~ ruseTis Semnaxvel banksac
ki aWarbebda. es miuTiTebs imaze, rom
Cveni ZiriTadi sayrdeni wvrili da
saSualo klientura iyo. saxelmwifo
moxeleTaAmfarvelobiTac arasdros
misargeblia.
_ erTma saxelmwifo moxelem mainc moutana sargebeli Tqvens banks.
roca evgeni biCkovi `roskomdragmets~ (Zvirfasi liTonebisa da qvebis ruseTis komiteti _ mTargmn.)
xelmZRvanelobda, `roskreditma~ mo-
_ rentabelobiT _ stoilenskis
samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinati, Cadebuli kapitalis ukugebiT _ qarxana `kauCuki~. misi aqciebi 1991 wels
150 aTas dolarad viyideT, misi gayidviT ki sul cota 500 milion
dolars miviRebT. qarxana mdebareobs
moskovis centrSi did teritoriaze,
sadac sul male didi mSenebloba gaCaRdeba.
_ rodis da ra principiT yidulobdiT samrewvelo sawarmoebs?
_ daiwyo privatizacia, banks fuli hqonda, piradad vecnobodi gasayidad gamotanil sawarmoTa sias, vafasebdi maT maCveneblebs, perspeqtivas. arCevanis dro mqonda erTaderTi
SezRudva: arasodes vacxadebdi pretenzias iseT aqtivebze, romlis gamoc, SesaZloa, kriminaluri omi gaCaRebuli da amiT sakuTari da Cemi
TanamSromlebis sicocxlisTvis safrTxe Semeqmna. amitomac banki navTobis, aluminis da foladsasxmel sawarmoebs ar yidulobda.
_ `rosiiski krediti~ giravnobis
bevr auqcionSi iRebda monawileobas,
magram arasodes gaumarjvia. ratom?
_ anu Tqven privatizaciis
gadarCenas cdilobdiT?
_ ara marto amas. giravnobis
auqcionebi bazarze arsebuli
Zalebis balanss arRvevda da gamarjvebulebi CemTan SedarebiT
ukanono upiratesobiT sargeblobdnen. rasakvirvelia, mindoda amisTvis xeli SemeSala. xmaurs vtexdi, rom Cemi pozicia
mTavrobis, prezidentis yuramde
misuliyo, magram seriozuli
mtrebi SeviZine mxolod. im
dros mimdinare saxelmwifo saTaTbiros arCevnebSi kraxi ganicada moZraobam `naS dom _ rasia~, romlis lideric maSindeli premieri viqtor Cernomirdini gaxldaT. aman elcinis kritika gamoiwvia da rogorc imdroindeli ministrTa kabinetis
erT-erTi wevri miyveboda, Cernomirdini Tavs imarTlebda da
arCevnebSi damarcxebis mizezad
giravnobis auqcionebis winaaRmdeg Cvens gamosvlebsa da masmediaSi atexil xmaurs asaxelebda. marTalia, ar SemiZlia, vamtkico, rom arsebobda Cernomirdinis pirdapiri miTiTeba, magram erTi kviris ganmavlobaSi, TiTqmis erTdroulad (amis damadasturebeli
dokumentacia SemorCenili maqvs),
mogvakiTxa ruseTSi arsebulma yvela
makontrolebelma struqturam: savaluto kontrolma, raionisa da qalaqis sagadasaxado inspeqciebma, sagadasaxado policiam, safinanso kontrolma, centralurma bankma. da es
yvelaferi arCevnebis damTavrebamde
moxda. yvelaze metad sagadasaxado
policia aqtiurobda _ banks erT
welze meti xnis ganmavlobaSi amowmebda, magram aranairi darRveva ar
upovia. amitomac sagadasaxado policia cdilobda, zemoqmedeba moexdina
saerTaSoriso auditorze (Arthur
Andersen) da maTgan bankis Sesaxeb
dokumentebi moepovebina, winaaRmdeg
SemTxvevaSi, ruseTSi muSaobis akrZalviT emuqreboda. sagadasaxado policiis maSindel ufross (sergei)
almazovs maSinve davureke. Cven SevxvdiT erTmaneTs da arasdros damaviwydeba is saubari. vcdilobdi, ga-
14 gv.
14 saerTo gazeTi
13 gv.
mego, ratom xulignoben misi TanamSromlebi, banki xom isedac yvelanair
dokuments aZlevda, man ki mipasuxa:
`yvelaferi kargad geqnebaT, oRond
miTxari, rogor axerxeb Cemi TanamSromlebis mosyidvas? ukve mesamed
vcvli Cems saukeTeso personals,
romlebic Sen gamowmeben, da veranair Sedegs ver miaRwies~. gamikvirda,
Tavidan verc mivxvdi, ras gulisxmobda. ganmimarta: `rogor axerxeb
maT gadabirebas da maTTan garigebas?~ vupasuxe: `RmerTma damifaros!
sagadasaxado policiasTan arasdros
milaparakia da arc momavalSi vapireb amas. Zalian kargad mesmis, rom
es yvelaferi Tqven SegikveTes!~ man,
rasakvirvelia, ar aRiara,
dakveTa rom hqonda. ase davSordiT erTmaneTs.
_ Zneli dasajerebelia,
rom Tqven ideuri mosazrebebis gamo yvelaze msxvil garigebebSi ar monawileobdiT...
_ miuxedavad amisa, asea.
magaliTad, giravnobis auqcionebis Semdeg erT weliwadSi
tiumenis
navTobkombinatis
(ÒÍÊ) saxelmwifo paketi
iyideboda. paketis naxevarze
pretenzias acxadebda mixail
fridmani da german xani, viktor vekselbergma SemomTavaza, meore naxevari erTad gveyida. davTanxmdi da masTan
erTad auqcionisTvis ori
Tvis ganmavlobaSi vemzadebodi; magram navTobkombinatis
direqtorma viqtor paliim am
auqcionis mizanSewonilobis
gamo xmauri atexa da sul
bolo momentSi masSi monawileobaze uari ganvacxade.
_ vekselbergma da `alfajgufma~ tiumenis navTobkombinatis meSveobiT didi fuli
iSoves. ar nanobT, rom mis yidvaze
uari ganacxadeT?
_ ar SemeZlo, monawileoba mimeRo iseT garigebaSi, romlis kanonierebaSi iotisodena eWvi mepareboda.
mogitanT kidev erT magaliTs: sainvesticio konkursze Cems partniorebTan erTad mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinatis 20 procenti SeviZine. sul male sainvesticio
programaSi aRmoCnda uzusto gaTvlebi, kanonmdebloba ki programis
Secvlis uflebas ar iZleoda da misi TviTneburad Secvla arc Cven
gvicdia. amitomac aqciebi saxelmwifos davubruneT. garwmunebT, saxelmwifo sakuTrebaSi aqciebis nebayoflobiTi dabrunebis sxva SemTxvevas
ver ipoviT. mxolod weliwadnaxevris Semdeg movaxerxeT da fulis
auqcionze am kombinatis aqciebi xelaxla gamovisyideT. me sruliad
gansxvavebuli taqtika mqonda: vyidulobdi iseT aqtivebs, romlisTvisac
brZola ar iyo saWiro, romelsac saTanadod ar afasebdnen an saerTodac
wamgebiani iyo. yvelani foladsamsxmelo sawarmoebisTvis ibrZodnen,
nedleulis mimwodeblebi ki aravis
ainteresebda; maSin viyide mixailovskis, stoilenskis, lebedinskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebi.
_ samTo-ggamamdidrebeli kombinatebi axla foladsamsxmel sawarmoebs aWarbeben, rentabelobiT romeli
aRwevs 500 procentamde?
_ marTlac iyo aseTi rentabelo-
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
`ar megona, rom
miliarderi
gavxdebodi~
ba, magram samTo-gamamdidrebelma kombinatebma didi mogeba sam-oTx weliwadSi moitana. manamde ki xuTi-eqvsi
weliwadi gvixdeboda maTi subsidireba, am kombinatebis TanamSromlebisTvis xelfasic ki moskovidan migvqonda. metalurgebi kombinatebs karnaxobdnen, ra fasad Seisyiddnen ned-
leuls da Cveulebisamebr, TviTRirebulebaze ufro iafad yidulobdnen.
viTarebis Sesacvlelad didi Zalisxmeva damWirda: Cemi iniciativiT, ruseTis samTo-gamamdidrebelma kombinatebma da yazaxeTis aseTive sawarmom
dades karteluri SeTanxmeba da warmoebis moculoba Seamcires, anu bazars zedmeti nedleuli moaciles
da metalurgebi mxolod amis Semdeg
gaxdnen samTo-gamamdidrebel kombinatze damokidebuli.
_ Tqven ambobT, rom arasodes
CndebodiT iq, sadac riski iyo, 1997
wels ki mainc aRmoCndiT yvelaze
cxel wertilSi _ krasnoiarskis
aluminis qarxanaSi.
_ am qarxnis aqciebi meorad bazarze viyide, Tanac qarxnis yvelaze
msxvili aqcioneri ar vyofilvar. ise
moxda, rom krasnoiarskSi muSaoba
bevrad adre daviwye, vidre aluminis
qarxanaSi movxvdebodi, jer kidev
1992 wels bankma SeiZina 30 procenti krasnoiarskis metalurgiuli
qarxnisa, romelic aluminis qarxanas
esazRvreba da sadac aluminis produqcia mzaddeba. Tumca im momentSi
am qarxniT aravin dainteresebula da
gaCerebuli iyo, radgan aravin aZlevda metals. es mdgomareoba 1994
wlamde gagrZelda, vidre krasnoiarskis aluminis qarxnis aqcionerebma
ar miiRes gadawyvetileba, metalurgiuli qarxnis balansze gadaetanaT saxelmwifo sakuTrebaSi arsebuli aluminis qarxnisa da aCinskis Tixamiwis kombinatis aqciebis 20 procenti.
_ Tqven xom ar waaSveleT
amas xeli?
_ me araferi vicodi. aluminis qarxnis mesakuTreebi fiqrobdnen, rom SemdgomSi am paketebs gaakontrolebdnen. isini gaocebulni darCnen, roca
Seityves, rom krasnoiarskis
metalurgiul kombinats msxvili aqcioneri ukve karga xania hyavs. maT SemomTavazes am
paketis gayidva da 1996 wels
Zalze Zvirad gavyide. erTi
wlis Semdeg aluminis qarxnis
aqcionerTa Soris Tavi uTanxmoebam iCina. vasili anisimovi
kargad icnobda sam maTgans _
aleqsandr kolpakovs, vladimir ratnikovs da oleg kims,
romlebsac aqciebis 28 procenti ekuTvnodaT. anisimovma
miTxra, rom kolpakovi da
ratnikovi qarxnis aqciebis 48 procentis myidvelebs eZebdnen, Tumca me
da vasilim maTgan aqciebi mxolod
mas Semdeg viyideT, roca maT anatoli bikovsa da genadi druJinins 20
procenti daubrunes da bikovi daTanxmda imas, rom Cven yvelani erTad
vimuSavebdiT.
_ ratom daniSneT maSin bikovi
`rosiiski kreditis~ vice-pprezidentad?
_ igi arc bankis sabWos wevri
iyo, xelfassac ar Rebulobda da
bankSi aranair rols ar asrulebda.
bankSi yovelTvis bevri vice-prezidenti iyo _ es Cemi idea iyo: am Tanamdebobaze vniSnavdiT bankis klientebs, msxvili sawarmoebis xelmZRvanelbs an mesakuTreebs. xalxs siamovnebda, praqtikulad ki isini iRebdnen
savizito baraTebs warweriT _ `vice-prezidenti~.
_ krasnoiarskis aluminis qarxnis
ramdeni procenti gekuTvnodaT? rodis da ratom waxvediT qarxnidan?
_ me da vasilim (anisimovma), ori-
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
ze
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
vem erTad kolpakovisa da amxanagebisgan 14 procenti viyideT. 5-5 procenti Glencore-sgan da Daewoo-sgan
gamovisyideT. amgvarad, roca aluminis qarxnidan movdiodi, me 12 procenti mqonda. am qarxanaSi erTi welic ar vyofilvar _ mas Semdeg wavedi, rac bikovsa da sxva aqcionerebs (mxaris) gubernator aleqsandr
lebedTan konfliqti SeeqmnaT.
_ amboben, rom Tqven asponsorebdiT lebeds.
_ lebeds maSin davexmare, roca
yvelasgan mitovebuli politikosi
iyo. anatoli Cubaisi xelmZRvanelobda elcinis winasaarCevno Stabs,
romlis wevrebic lebeds seriozulad ar aRiqvamdnen. me ki Cems ofisSi misi winasaarCevno Stabi ganvaTavse, mis, ase vTqvaT, `raskrutkas~ vafinansebdi. arCevnebamde erTi TviT
adre yvela mixvda, rom me marTali
viyavi: elcins dabali reitingi hqonda, lebedma ki arCevnebSi Tavisi xmebi elcins dauTmo da amiT misi gamarjvebac uzrunvelyo. maSin CemTvis
madlobac ki aravis uTqvams, xolo
rodesac lebeds xsnidnen (uSiSroebis sabWos xelmZRvanelis Tanamdebobidan), yvelam gaixsena, rom igi me
moviyvane (politikaSi) da gaminapires (gamriyes). es iyo erTaderTi
SemTxveva, roca politikur procesSi vmonawileobdi. mere, roca lebeds gubernatorad irCevdnen, Zveleburad, kadrebiT ki davexmare, magram
uSualod ar damifinansebia da masTan
arc aranairi kavSiri ar mqonia.
`SeiZleboda,
yvelaferi damekarga~
_ Tqven sxvadasxvagvar aqtivs yidulobdiT, Tumca 90-iiani wlebis
bolos Tqveni sainvesticio aqtivoba
Semcirda. ratom?
_ 1998 wlis defoltis Semdeg
yvelanairi Zalisxmeva `rosiiski kreditis~ problemebis mogvarebas dasWirda. sxvaTa Soris, maSin saxelmwifo moxeleebma mogvatyues. msxvili
bankebis mflobelebi defoltis Sesaxeb mis gamocxadebamde gagvafrTxiles. piradad me, defoltis kategoriuli winaaRmdegi viyavi, Tumca yvela mamSvidebda, xolo centraluri
bankis xelmZRvaneli sergei dubinini
dagvpirda, rom Tu saWiro gaxdeba,
bankisTvis kredits miiRebTo. gamocxadda defolti da menabreebi TavianTi fulis wasaRebad bankebs miawydnen. sxvebiviT rom movqceuliyaviT, _ fuli ar gagveca, Cveni bankisTvis krizisis Sedegebi aseTi damangreveli ar iqneboda. miuxedavad amisa, Cven ori kviris ganmavlobaSi yvela msurvels patiosnad davubruneT
180 milioni dolari. roca fuli
gagviTavda, dubinins Tavisi dapireba
Sevaxsene, magram krediti ar momca.
_ ra Sedegebi moutana defoltma
banks? ra moimoqmedeT bankis krizisidan gamosayvanad?
saerTo gazeTi 15
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
_ maSin rTuli arCevanis winaSe
aRmovCndi _ an gavkotrebuliyavi an
damoukideblad gametarebina restruqturizaciis procesi. Zneli iyo
aseTi gadawyvetilebis miReba, Tumca
restruqturizacia varCie. CemTvis,
rogorc bankis aqcionerisTvis, mas
ekonomikuri TvalsazrisiT, azri ar
hqonda _ kargad mesmoda, rom restruqturizebuli bankis sabazro Rirebuleba Zalian dabali iqneboda. pasivsa da aqtivs Soris gansxvaveba daaxloebiT, erTi miliardi dolari iyo.
paradoqsulia, magram safasuri
yvela Cemi aqtivisa, romlebic bankTan dakavSirebuli ar yofila, im
dros erTi miliardic ki ar iyo. maSin miviRe gadawyvetileba, yvela Cemi samrewvelo sawarmos _ lebedinskis, stoilenskis, mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebis, `tulaCermetis~, orlovskis foladsaglinavi qarxnis, sastumroebis aqciebi bankis valebis uzrunvelsayofad
Camedo. aseTi giravnobis gareSe, romlis nawilis mogvianebiT gamosyidva
momixda, `rosiiski kreditis~ klientebi ukiduresad dazaraldebodnen,
rasac Cemi cxovrebiseuli principebis gaTvaliswinebiT ver davuSvebdi.
bevrs ar esmoda Cemi _ nacnob biznesmenebs lamis TviTmkvlelad mivaCndi (`rosiiski krediti~ sakredito
organizaciebis restruqturizaciis
saagentos /ÀÐÊÎ/ mmarTvelobaSi gadavida. miiRo ra bankis 25 procenti
+ 1 aqcia sakuTrebaSi, kidev 50 procenti _ marTvaSi, saagentom mas 4,5
mlrd rublis sakredito xazi gauxsna. im momentSi `rosiiski kreditis~
sakredito davalianeba daaxloebiT,
erT miliards Seadgenda. 2000 wlis
agvistoSi damtkicda SeTanxmeba,
romlis Tanaxmadac, meanabreebma
(moTxovna _ 1,8 miliardi rubli)
erTjeradad 30 000 rubli da bankis veqsilebi miiRes, xolo korporaciulma klientebma (moTxovna _ 21
miliardi rubli) _ moTxovnis 10
procentamde fulis saxiT da bankis
veqselebi, romlebic aT weliwadSi
iyo dasafari. 2003 wlis ivnisSi
bankma fizikuri pirebis mimarT arsebuli valdebulebebis 90 procenti
dafara. 2003 wlis noemberSi `rosiiski kreditis~ kapitali kvlav dadebiTi gaxda. restruqturizaciis saagentos warmomadgenelTa TqmiT, es
yvelaferi damatebiTi emisiis mimdinareobisas bankis kapitalSi valebis
konvertaciis Sedegad moxerxda. _
Âåäîìîñòè)
_ ra aqtivebi gayideT kreditorebis gasastumreblad?
_ paketebi, romlebiTac lebedinskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinatis gakontroleba SeiZleboda, orlovis foladsaglinavi qarxana, `tulaCermeti~. vyiddi imas, razec yvelaze didi moTxovnileba iyo. sxvaTaASoris, mixailovskis kombinatis
aqciebi maSin aravis sWirdeboda, im
dros maTSi 50 milion dolarsac ki
aravin gadaixdida. sul bankis aqcionerebma kreditorebs daaxloebiT,
450 milioni dolari gadauxades _
am TanxaSi Sedis aqciebis realizaciiT miRebuli Semosavali da `arkos~
kreditebi, romlebic Cven mogvianebiT sakuTari biznesis meSveobiT davfareT. sxvaTa Soris, maSin rom SemenarCunebina da axla gameyida, kidev
3 miliards miviRebdi.
SeiZleboda, yvelaferi damekarga.
qveyanaSi ekonomikis aRmasvla kidev
naxevari wliT rom Seferxebuliyo,
iZulebuli gavxdebodi, Cadebuli qoneba gameyida da araferi SemrCeboda.
SarSan bankis restruqturizacia
dasrulda. darwmunebuli var, amiT
ara marto `roskreditisa~ da misi
aqcionerebis prestiJi, aramed mTlianad ruseTis sabanko sistemisadmi
ndoba amaRlda. ucxoeli bankirebi
gafacicebuli akvirdebodnen ruseTSi situacias, xolo Cveni bankis
restruqturizaciam yvelas daanaxa,
rom msgavsi problemis civilizebulad mogvarebis magaliTebi ruseTSi
SesaZlebeli iyo.
_ dRes xom ar nanobT, rom aseTi
restruqturizacia gadawyviteT?
_ vamayob, rom ase moviqeci. Sevi-
narCune Cem mier Seqmnili banki.
`roskreditis~ restruqturizacia
erTaderTi SemTxvevaa msoflio praqtikaSi, roca mTavrobis mizeziT warmoqmnili valebi kerZo kompaniam gaistumra. Tumca, rasakvirvelia, odnav
gulsatkenia, rom Zalian cotam daafasa is, risi gakeTebac maSin momiwia.
_ ra gakavSirebdaT biznesmen arkadi gaidamakTan, romelmac 2000
wels `rosiiski kreditis~ direqtorTa sabWos Tavmjdomaris Tanamdeboba daikava? gqondaT Tu ara erToblivi proeqtebi? amboben, rom rom
mas surda, TqvenTan erTad orlovis
foladsaglinavi qarxana eyida.
_ gaidamaki 1991 wels gavicani.
mas ruseTSi qonebis yidva undoda,
masTan, iseve rogorc aTas sxva mewarmesTan erTad, SesaZlo erTobliv
investiciebze vmsjelobdi. mas marTlac surda, orlovis foladsaglinavi qarxnis aqciebis yidva, magram sabolood, fuli ar gaiRo. masTan aranairi erToblivi biznesi ar mqonia.
samagierod, misi wyalobiT, uZravi
qonebiT davkavdi. 1992-1993 wlebSi
gaidamakma `minskisa~ da `centralnaias~ aqciebis uzrunvelyofiT, bankidan gamoitana kreditebi, romlebic
ar daubrunebia.
_ da mainc _ iyo Tu ara gaidamaki `rosiiski kreditis~ aqcioneri?
2000 wels bankSi ambobdnen, rom igi
aqcioneria.
_ Cveni nacnobobis pirvelive
dRidan undoda daveyoliebine da misTvis bankis Tundac 10 procenti mi-
meyida, magram uars veubnebodi. 2000
wels ki gamoCnda da meubneba, rom
Tanaxmaa, 200 milion dolarad 25
procenti iyidos. banks maSin restruqturizaciis saagentos marTavda.
fuli rom moeca, ufro did pakets
mivcemdi nakleb fasad. maSinve dokumentebi ar gagviformebia, xeli ar
mogviweria, magram igi sabWos Tavmjdomared daniSnes _ swored maSin (aleqsandr) livSici Tanamdebobas tovebda, mis adgilze sxva vinme unda
SegverCia. gaidamaks, rogorc Cans, ar
sjeroda, rom banks ar gavakotrebdi.
sami Tve imuSava CvenTan, sakuTari
TvaliT naxa yvela giravnoba da wavida. roca SevityveT, rom igi iaraRiT vaWrobda, vTqvi, bankSi aRar davinaxo-meTqi.
`gadavwyvite, Cems
did meurneobaSi
wesrigi davamyaro~
_ ra gegmebi gaqvT Tqveni bankebis
Semdgomi ganviTarebis Sesaxeb? xom
ar apirebT `impeqsbankis~ gayidvas?
SesaZlebelia Tu ara `rosiiski kreditisa~ da `impeqsbankis~ Serwyma?
_ vidre mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidrebel kombinatTan dakavSirebiT garigebas davdebdi, `impeqsbankis~ gayidvis variants ganvixilavdi,
magram axla gadavwyvite, finansuri
seqtori erT-erT prioritetul mimarTulebad vaqcio. axlaxan `rosiiski kreditis~ sawesdebo kapitali
gavzarde 100 milioniT 350 milionamde _ `tulaCermetis~ gayidviT
amonagebi Tanxa Cavde. arc ise didi
xnis win 50 milioni `impeqsbankSic~
Cavde. uaxloes periodSi orive bankSi kidev 150 milionis dabandebas vapireb. maT gaerTianebas ar vapireb, es
ekonomikurad gamarTlebuli ar aris,
ufro xelsayrelia ori bankis qona
_ erTi, `impeqsbanki~, specializdeba
sacalo momsaxurebaze, xolo `rosiiski kredits~ ramdenime weliwadSi
qveynis erT-erT saukeTeso sainvesticio bankad vaqcev. saamisod ki didi
Zalisxmevaa saWiro, uwinaresad, es
exeba bankis imijs _ yvelas axsovs,
rom `rosiiski krediti~ ramdenime
wlis ganmavlobaSi Tvlemda.
_ ramdenad gamarTlebulia `impeqsbankis~ ganviTareba, roca ucxouri
bankebis poziciebi Zlierdeba da maT-
Tan konkurencia sul ufro rTuldeba.
_ ucxouri bankebis konkurencias
rom win aRudge, erT-erTi maTgani
partniorad unda gaixado. Cven (aqciebis) 25 procentis gayidva gvindoda, magram potenciurma myidvelebma
dagvarwmunes, rom damblokavze naklebi ar ainteresebdaT. amitomac axla molaparakebebs vawarmoebT 25
procents + 1 aqciis gayidvis Sesaxeb. es garigeba biZgis mimcemi iqneba
bankis ganviTarebisTvis, Semdeg ki
biznesis sworad gamarTvaa saWiro.
_ visTan gaqvT molaparakebebi?
_ safrangeTis, germaniis, holandiis bankebTan. arCevani uaxloes xanSi gakeTdeba.
_ ratom gayideT mixailovskis
samTo-ggamamdidrebeli kombinati?
_ jer kidev 90-iani wlebis Sua
periodidan moyolebuli, samTo-gamamdidrebeli da foladsaglinavi kombinatebis gaerTianebas veswrafvodi,
raTa sruli sawarmoo jaWvi Seqmniliyo. aqtivebis gaerTianebis SesaZleblobaze vmsjelobdi yvela msxvili kombinatis mflobelebTan _ vladimir lisinTan, viqtor raSnikovTan,
aleqsei mordaSovTan. TiToeul maTgans gaerTianebul kompaniaSi sakontrolo paketis SenarCuneba surda,
rac CemTvis xelsayreli ar iyo. yvelaze metad warmatebuli gamodga molaparakebebi aleqsandr abramovTan
(`evrazholdingis~ TanamflobelTan).
SarSan masTan mivaRwie SeTanxmebas
`evrazholdingisa~ da mixailovskis
kombinatis gaerTianebis Sesaxeb. gaerTianebul kompaniaSi me miviRebdi
40 procentamde, riTac misi umsxvilesi aqcioneri gavxdebodi (`evrazholdingis~ aqciebi kompaniis menejments Soris aris ganawilebuli. _
Âåäîìîñòè). dokumentebi mzad iyo
xelmosawerad, roca Cemma Zvelma megobarma vasili anisimovma da aliSer
usmanovma sxva winadadeba SemomTavazes.
_ Tavdapirvelad iTqva, rom aqtivebs gaaerTianebdiT, ramdenime Tvis
Semdeg ki yvela saxtad datoveT
imiT, rom kombinati 2 miliard dolarad gayideT.
_ Cven erToblivi biznesis SesaZleblobaze, maT sakuTrebaSi arsebuli metalurgiuli kombinatis `nostas~ bazaze axali metalurgiuli
warmoebis Seqmnis Sesaxeb daviwyeT
msjeloba. me mindoda mixailovskis
kombinatis aqciebis sakontrolo paketi SemenarCunebina, isini ki, aseT
SemTxvevaSi, `nostaSi~ _ saboloo
mza produqciis mwarmoebel kombinatSi daJinebiT moiTxovdnen paritets. aseTi varianti CemTvis miuRebeli iyo da gadavwyvite, maTTvis
mTliani paketi mimeyida _ abramovisgan gansxvavebiT, maT es winadadeba
SemomTavazes.
_ iqneb metalurgiul bizness Tavi imitomac daanebeT, rom ruseTSi
sul ufro da ufro mkacrdeba biznesisTvis aucilebeli pirobebi?
_ mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinatis aqciebi imotom gavyide, rom kargi fuli SemomTavazes.
politikis komentireba ki ar msurs.
_ rodis ufro muSaobdiT komfortulad _ Tqven xom egreT wodebuli sabazro urTierTobebis TiToeuli periodis Taviseburebani sakuTar Tavze gaqvT gadatanili?
16 gv.
16 saerTo gazeTi
15 gv.
_ yvelaze komfortulad maSin
vgrZnobdi Tavs, roca `rosiiski krediti~ qveynis erT-erTi umsxvilesi
banki iyo, romelic ganviTarebis
mwvervalze imyofeboda.
_ vidre mixailovskis kombinatTan
dakavSirebul garigebas dadebdiT,
manamde stoilenskis samTo-ggamamdidrebeli kombinati gayideT. iqmneba
STabeWdileba, rom Tqven qonebas yidiT.
_ gadavwyvite, Cems did meurneobaSi wesrigi davamyaro. aRar maqvs
Zveleburi energia, rom yvelafriT
erTbaSad davkavde. Zalian bevri sxvadasxvagvari aqtivi maqvs, romelTagan
bevri privatizaciis dasawyisSivea
nayidi. wlis bolomde yvela araprofiluri aqtivis gayidvas vapireb, davitoveb mxolod `stoilenskaia nivas~, bankebs, uZrav qonebas, saafTiaqo bizness,
aRmosavleT cimbiris
navTobisa
da
gazis
kompanias
(ÂÑÍÊ).
_ ramdenad afasebT `unikoris~
aqtivebs? ra Tanxas miiRebT araprofiluri qonebis gayidvis Sedegad?
_ Cemi azriT, axla yvela aqtivis
Rirebuleba 1,5-2 miliardi dolaria,
araprofiluri aqtivebisa ki _ daaxloebiT 500 milioni dolari.
_ Tqven stoilenskis samTo-ggamamdidrebeli kombinati 510 milion dolarad gayideT, mixailovskis kombinati da `tulaCermeti _ 2 miliardad. bazari daintrigebulia _ rogor gankargavT amonageb fuls?
_ mixailovskis kombinatis aqciebidan amonagebi Tanxis naxevars axlandel proeqtebSi davabandeb. CemTvis axla prioriteti soflis meurneobaa. `stoilenskaia nivaSi~ ukve
Cadebulia 200 milioni dolari, damatebiT kidev 200-300 milionis investirebas vapireb. axla molaparakebebs vmarTav kompaniis SeZenis Sesaxeb, romelic `stoilenskaia nivas~
masStabisaa. misi dasaxeleba jerjerobiT ar SemiZlia.
_ ratom aris prioritetuli
soflis meurneobis biznesi? gagaCniaT rame gaTvla, rom igi perspeqtiulia?
_ axlandel pirobebSi msgavsi
gaTvla SeuZlebelia, bevr rames
mTavrobis pozicia gansazRvravs. erTgvari sportuli interesi mamoZravebs _ rTul seqtorSi warmatebuli
kompania Sevqmna.
_ gaamarTla Tu ara saafTiaqo
biznesma Tqveni molodini?
_ Cven igi arafrisgan daviwyeT.
jerjerobiT mogeba Cadebul investicias ver aWarbebs, misi reinvestireba mimdinareobs, magram es mimarTuleba perspeqtiulad mimaCnia. kidev
100-200 milionis Cadebas vapireb.
SarSan samxreTis federalur olqSi
ukve viyideT didi saafTiaqo qseli,
axla mis rebrendirebas vaxdenT.
dRes bevria am biznesiT dainteresebuli _ Cven ganvacxadeT, rom mzad
varT viyidoT saafTiqo qseli, magram
aravis unda misi gayidva.
_ uZrav qonebasTan dakavSirebuli
ra proeqtebis realizebas apirebT?
_ daiwyo `minskis~ rekonstruqcia~, Semdegi sastumro `centralnaia~ iqneba. meorad bazarze sastumroebis yidvis SesaZleblobas vswavlob.
`kauCukis~ teritoriaze, romlis saerTo farTobi 10 heqtaria, sul ma-
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
`ar megona, rom
miliarderi
gavxdebodi~
le daiwyeba mravalfunqciuri didi
kompleqsis mSenebloba _ ofisebiT,
sacxovrebeli saxlebiT da sxv. uZravi qonebiT SemdgomSic davkavdebiT,
ukve veZebT Zvel nagebobebs, miwas
mSeneblobisTvis. uZrav qonebaSi yvelaze didi investicia Caideba _ daaxloebiT 500 milioni dolari.
_ Tqvens mflobelobaSia didi
satransporto kompania `wiaRiseulis
gadazidvs centri~. xom ar apirebT
mis gayidvas? ramdenad afasebT mas?
_ vfiqrob, misi fasi 250 milioni dolaria. es kompania sarkinigzo
gadazidvebSi umsxvilesia, mis parkSi
4 000 vagonia. uaxloes aT weliwadSi mas veravin Seaviwroebs. jerjerobiT ar gamomaqvs gasayidad, magram Tu myidvelebi moiZebnebian, gavyidi.
trolo paketis `iukosisTvis~ miyidvis organizeba gadavwyvite. am proeqtis bedi jerjerobiT gaurkvevelia.
Tuki saxelmwifo gamoxatavs Tavis
pozicias aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa da gazis kompaniis mimarT,
SesaZloa, pretenzia gamecxadebina
sakontrolo paketis Sesyidvaze, magram xom unda vicode, visTan vawarmoo molaparakebebi _ `iukosTan~ Tu
saxelmwifosTan?
_ aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa
da gazis kompaniis aqciebis sakontrolo paketis SesaZenad `iukosTan~
molaparakebebi mimdinareobs?
_ jerjerobiT _ ara.
_ riTi gxiblavT es proeqti?
_ kargad vicnob am kompanias, igi
warmatebiT viTardeboda, mis mimarT
pretenziebi ar hqoniaT (da axlac
_ raSi unda daxarjoT mixailovskis kombinatis gayidviT miRebuli
Tanxis meore naxevari? raime msxvili
aqtivis yidvas apirebT? iqneb ruseTis sazRvrebs miRma?
_ yvelanair Sesyidvas vapireb
mxolod ruseTSi, romelsac kargad
vicnob. viyiddi axal did kompanias,
magram saintereso winadadebebi ar
Cans. erT-erTi varianti iqneba aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa da gazis
kompaniis sakontrolo paketis yidva.
`unikors~ am kompaniis aqciebis 28,5
procenti aqvs. igi aRmosavleT cimbiris, kerZod, CemTvis kargad nacnobi krasnoiarskis mxaris bolomde gamoukvleveli, magram navTobis perspeqtiuli maragebis aTvisebiT aris
dakavebuli.
_ rogor aRmoCndiT am proeqtSi?
_ `iuksis~ (1998 wlis gazafxulze `sibneftisa~ da `iukosis~
mflobelebi am saxelwodebiT gaerTianebuli kompaniis Seqmnas apirebdnen. _ Âåäîìîñòè) daSlis Semdeg,
`sibneftis~ aqcionerebma aRmosavleT
cimbiris navTobisa da gazis kompania,
aRar maxsovs, romel navTobreiderebs mihyides. isini am kompaniis aqciebis 100 procents me mTavazobdnen; vfiqrobdi, rom marto ver gavwvdebodi da (aRmosavleT cimbiris
navTobisa da gazis kompaniis) sakon-
asea) im saxelmwifo organoebs, romlebic bunebaTsargeblobis sakiTxebs
aregulireben. aqcionerebma masSi ukve Cades 190 milioni dolaris investicia. aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa da gazis kompaniis ganviTarebis
strategia Cven, rogorc minoritarul aqcionerebs, xels gvaZlevs.
Tuki aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa
da gazis kompania gaiyideba, am proeqtis aTvisebas mxolod Cemi fuli
ar eyofa, damatebiTi saxsrebis mozidva iqneba aucilebeli.
_ Tuki aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa da gazis kompaniis yidva ver
moxerxda?
_ portfelur investorad davrCebi. kargad vicnob sainvesticio bizness. me ukve mekuTvnis `gazpromis~,
`lukoilis~, sxva kompaniebis TiToTiTo procenti. momavalSi rusuli
kompaniebis likviduri qaRaldebis
yidvas kvlav gavagrZeleb.
_ saqarTveloSi axlaxan dabrundiT. didi xania, iq biznesi gaqvT?
_ daaxloebiT aTi welia, rac saqarTveloSi biznesi maqvs. aqtivebi
sxvadasxvagvaria. Cems mflobelobaSia kvebis dargSi erT-erTi umsxvilesi kompania _ `Tolia~, romelic
amzadebs nayins, pelmens, namcxvrebs.
maqvs banki `qarTu~, agreTve saqarTveloSi udidesi samSeneblo kompania,
romelic ofisebsac aSenebs da
sacxovrebel saxlebsac; sasoflo-sameurneo kompania, romelsac 600 ha
miwa ekuTvnis. Cems sakuTrebas warmoadgens saqarTveloSi yvelaze didi
marani, romelic mTaSia gaWrili. iq
RviniT savse uzarmazari cisternebia.
300 heqtarze vazi gavaSeneT, ganviTarebas vfiqrobdiT, magram axla yvelafer amas vyidi, myidvelebic gamoCndnen. mxolod banks davitoveb.
_ ratom gadawyviteT saqarTveloSi biznesis gayidva?
_ male 50 wlis vxdebi da axla
aucilebelia mTavarze koncentrireba, yvelafris erTad gaZRolas sxva
energia sWirdeba. erTaderTi proeqti, romlis dasrulebac msurs, es
aris samTo-saTxilamuro kompleqsi
`bakuriani-2~. ramdenime wlis win evropis erT-erT saukeTeso mTian mxareSi, bakurianSi, miwis didi nakveTi
SeviZine. kanadurma da avstriulma
kompaniebma ukve Seadgines sakurorto kompleqsis ganviTarebis generaluri gegma. kompleqsi moicavs
saTxilamuro trasebsa da gasarTob
centrs. wleuls proeqtis pirveli
etapis _ gondolebiani sabagiro
gzis mSeneblobis dafinansebas viwyeb, gaisad ki mTliani infrastruqtura mzad unda iyos. TviTon ver
davkavdebi am proeqtiT. iq ZiriTadad
rusi turistebi Cavlen. minda, rom
rusma turoperatorebma sastumroebis mSenebloba daiwyon da mzad var,
maT mSeneblobisTvis miwa usasyidlod gadavce da dafinansebis SeRavaTiani pirobebic SevTavazo.
_ saqarTveloSi Tqvens dabrunebas qveyanaSi seriozuli cvlilebebi
daemTxva. rogor afasebT am cvlilebebs?
_ xelisuflebaSi movida axalgazrduli Zala, magram me maTi arc
momxre var da arc mowinaaRmdege.
sul es aris, risi Tqmac SemiZlia.
saerTod ki, Zalian vwuxvar, rom rusul-qarTuli urTierTobebi aseT kalapotSi miedineba.
_ ramdenad sajaro cxovrebas
eweviT saqarTveloSi, rogori damokidebuleba aqvT adgilobriv politikosebs, biznesmenebs Tqven mimarT?
_ arc erT maTganTan ar maqvs
kontaqti, gancalkevebiT vcxovrob,
mxolod naTesavebTan, axlo megobrebTan vurTierTob. aranairi politikuri ambicia ar gamaCnia, ubralod,
minda, sakuTar ojaxTan erTad mSvidad vicxovro. Cems sofel Worvilas
xandaxan biznesis sakiTxebis mosagvareblad Tu vtoveb.
_ Tu es yvelaferi marTlac asea,
maSin ratom mimarTeT sasamarTlos
pativisa da Rirsebis dasacavad?
_ imitom, rom arasodes damikargavs pativi da Rirseba, sindisis karnaxiT vcxovrobdi. am faseulobebis
aRdgenaze ki isini dafiqrdnen, vinc
Cemze sicrues werda.
maria roJkova, Âåäîìîñòè
7 aprili, 2005 weli
‹
saerTo gazeTi 17
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
im mxares, sadac Cv.w. aR-iiT I
saukuneSi andria pirvelwodebulma da mataTa mociqulebma iqadages, saakaSvilma da misma yaCaRebma
pirisagan miwisa aRgva gadauwyvites. saakaSvilis uniWo fantaziiT
“damSvenebuli” baTumi SarSan vixile. amitom wels, universitetidan gamogdebuli da mowafebis anabara datovebuli dedaCemis SeTavazebas davTanxmdi. “naCuqar cxens
kbilebs an usinjaven” da dapatiJebaze uari ar vTqvi, qobuleTSi
gavyevi. saakaSvilis “naqebi da ayvavebuli aWaris” nasaxs _ qobuleTSi ver naxavT. lamazi da
zrdili aWarlebiT ganTqmul mxareSi, gaWirvebis miuxedavad, xalxi iseTive Tbili da gulRiaa, rogorc adre. gakvirveba saakaSvilze
saubarma gamoiwvia. daSinebuli
Tbiliselebisgan
gansaxvavebiT,
ver vnaxe aWareli, romelmac obieqturi da marTali Sefaseba ar
misca saakaSvilis uTavbolo bogins saqarTveloSi. erTma aWarelma sinanuliT isic miTxra_ saakaSvili qobuleTs ise ar wyalobs,
rogorc baTumso. meorem ki daayola, SesaZloa, kargic aris, Torem
aqaurobasac gaaTurqebdao. aWaris
wugaTurqebis dasawyiss ki, 5-55-w
Tis
SualediT
Camoqrolebuli“GeliK”, “SeS-T
Taz”-iis warwerebiani Tuqruli trailerebis meSveobiT, saqarTveloSi Turquli
porduqciis eqsapansiac metyvelebs. kolxeTis uZveles miwazec
alisa da ninos distrofiuli qandakebebic amisTvis dadga da didad
amayobs. simboloebisadmi masonTa
gansakuTrebuli midrekilebebis
gaTvaliswinebiT, am qandakebebis
dadgmasac simboluri datvirTva
unda hqondes. mainca da mainc nino (saxeli)- qarTvelTa ganmanaTleblis, mociqulTa sworis da
arabi “alis” dadgma, SemTxveviToba ar unda iyos! anu ramdenadac
ali, ideaSi, ninos “erT xorc
xdeba”, unda vivaraudoT, rom
“ali baba garekil I-ss Tavisi nacionali yaCaRebianad” ninos saxiT
alisgan saaqarTvelos gaxarWeba
ganuzraxavs. muslimTagan araerTgzis aoxrebul-d
dapyrobil aWaraSi
arabuli arqiteqturis elementebisa da wels ukve Cadriani iraneli da arabi qalebis simravlec
_ amaze miuTiTebs. investorebad
Semosul Turq biznesmenebsac mSeneblebad Turqebi SemohyavT. inevstorebma saqarTveloSi “monaTmflobeli plantatorebis” funqcia
itvirTes. maT kompaniebSi dasaqmebuli yvela qarTveli, faqtobrivad, monis pirobebze muSaobs. dapirebuli maRalxelfasiani
samuSao adgilebis nacvlad, eraySi sakontraqto xelSekrulebiT
gagzavnil qarTvelTa msgavsad,
aWaraSic qarTvelTa diskriminacia
xdeba. Turqi batonebis sastumroebis mSeneblobebisas, maTi Camoyvanili muSa, ufaso sacxovrebliTac
da samjeradi kvebiTac uzrunvelyofilia. xelfassac eraySi “amerikeli natoelebis” msgavsad, qarTvelze orjer mets iRebs. sastumroSi eqim-mmasaJistis adgilze
muSaobis dasawyebad misul qalbatonebs ki samuSaos im SemTxvevaSi sTavazoben, Tu seqsmomsaxurebazec daTanxmdebian.?! anu xalxuri eniT rom vTqvaT, eqimi dotis
msgavsad “ibozeben”. “garekil ali
baba I da misi nacionaluri yaCaRebic”, romlebic, “kikus” msgavsad “fuli baba, bevri fulio”
eZaxian Tavian “miSa babas”. Tanaxma arian fulis sanacvlod sakuTari ded-mmamac ki gahyidon, araTu
samSoblo da sarwmunoeba. saakaSvili qobuleTs armenebiT avsebs,
baTums ki TurqebiT. saboloo
jamSi ki, saqarTvelos did haramhanad gadaqcevas gegmavs, sadac
msoflio seqsindustriaSi qarTvel gog-bbiWebs Caabams. aba baTumis
gei-aaRlumisTvis saxldaxelod gakeTebul saitebze, sxvadasxva sas-
tumroebSi, ucxoelebs, sxvadasxva
momsaxureobas tyuilad xom ar
sTavazobdnen? an “msoflioSi saxelganTqmul anakliaSi” “nudisturi plaJis” mowyobas tyuilad
xom ar gegmavs? “pirveli qalbatonic,” 90-iiani wlebis dasawyisSi, 8 gogonasTan erTad, areul
saqarTveloSi SemTxveviT xom ar
Camosula? igive megruli, svanuri
da qarTuli dialeqtebic SemTxve-
agvistos omiT es nawilobriv gaakeTa kidec. afxazeTs ki, rogorc
ZirZvel dakargul miwa-w
wyals, ukve aRarc ki axsenebs. Amboben, mis
aRiarebasac apirebs kideco?! axla
ki ‘”aWaris siyvarulis buSti aqvs
gaxeTqili”. specialurad, ramdenime asiaTasad gadaRebul filmSi
“mziani saqarTvelo” or Jurnalists baTumSi gamoyenebul evropuli arqiteqturis elementebze
esaubreba. evropulze metad baTumSi islamuri
elementebi
rom
sWarbobs,
amaze
arafers ambobs.
”garekili ali
Tavisi nacionali
yaCaRebianad” Tbilissa da Tbiliselebs arCevenebis
wagebis gamo rom
ver itans, axali
araa. Tumca saprezidentod gamzadebuli ugulavas sawinaaRmdegod, aWaraSi metad saintereso faqti aRmovaCine?! nu ityviT
da denze mibmuli
nagvis tarific da
samrSruto taqsebis gaZvirebac Turme mxolod Tbiliselebis sulis
buleTi. aRsaniSnavia, rom xsenebuli bungalo yofil gamgebels_
vinme noRaidels ekuTvnis. miuxedavad “ali baba garekil I-iis” daqadnebuli araklanurobisa, yofili gamgeblis “sviazebi”qobuleTSi isev “Wris”. Sewuxebuli damsveneblebisgan araerTgzis gamoZaxebuli patruli ki, xSirad Rameul RriancelSi monawileobas Tavad agrZelebda. rac ara marto
“saakaSvilis turizmis infrastrqurturas”, aramed merabiSvilis
policiis mier mopovebul avtoritetsac laxavs. miuxedavad imisa, rom Ramis yoveli Rreoba policiis himniT iwyeboda da sruldeboda. Ramis sam saaTze mainc gasakviri mosasmeni iyo, gamayruebeli xmiT namReri _ “dRes simsSvide aris Cveni mizanio”. gansakuTrebuli interesi CemSi simReram _
“ß ëþáëþ òåáÿ Ðîññèÿ“-mm gamoiwvia. marTalia, “ruseTis” nacvlad,
momRerlebis “rostovs” ambobdnen, magram rostovic ruseTis nawilad ar moiazreba? Aai, garekil
rogor pativs scemen Sens turizms da amave dros, rogor uyvarT Seni “saZulveli ruseTi”?!
Cvens sastumroSi erevnidan
Camosuli ori qaliSvili isvenebda. qarTuli stumarT-mmaspinZlobidan gamomdinare, sakmaod Tbili
da kargi uTierTobebi dagvimyarada. sakmaod, ganaTlebulma da kargad aRzrdilma 34 wlis qalba-
ali baba da nacionali
yaCaRebi
viT xom ar uswavlia? arc “ali
baba garekils”, saqarTvelos momaval prezidents “SemTxveviT” rom
ar Sexvedria strasburgSi _ amaSic eWvi aRaravis unda eparebodes. “amerikuli proeqtis es wyvili Tavis yaCaRebianad” mizanmimarTulad angrevs da anadgurebs saqarTvelos. “pirveli qalbatoni”
sirinozis xmiT da angelozis saxiT axla samegrelosTvis gakeTebuli klipidan gvimReris. “gamarjoba, afaxazeTo Senis” da “kokiTi fandarastis” samaCabloze gadaRebulma klipebma es mxareebi
dagavakargvina. axla, SesaZloa, samegrelosac, raRac amdagvars upirebdnen. praqtika ase adasturebs.
miT ufro maSin, roca cxirvalSi
gamarjvebis aRsaniSnav aRlumSi
rusi samxedroebic apireben monawileobas. vin icis, garekils kidev ra garigeba aqvs maTTan?!
saakaSvili dafiJvinebuli “kaligulas saxiT” turizmis ayvavebas gvpirdeba. misi “pirveli qalbatoni” ki saqarTveloSi ganxorcilebeuli jandacvis yvela damangreveli proeqtis monawilea. Tumca saakaSvilis gverdiT imdeni
“sirinozis xmiani” qalbatoni momravlda, rom xalxi ukve veRar
arkvevs, romelia pirveli da romeli meore, an mesame?! “am sirinozTa galobas” A”ali baba garekilis” gulis mosagebad miSaviziebi 24-ssaaTian reJimSi atrialeben. arc isaa gamoricxuli, 24
000 000-aad Sefasebuli turistebisTvis asaSenebeli saavadmyofoc,
swored is aRmoCndes, romelsac
saqarTveloSi organoebis transplantaciisTvis aSeneben da arc,
rogorc boroti enebi saubroben,
rom “organoebiT vaWrobis am saerTaSoriso qselis saqarTveloSi
mTavari kuratori” swored statusiT “pirveli qalbatonia”. imitom, rom jandacvis proeqtebze
eqskluzivi saqarTveloSi mas gaaCnia! saakaSvils saqarTvelo da
qarTvelebi ise sZuls, rom SesaZleblobis SemTxvevaSi, saqarTvelos gulsac amoglejda. Tumda
amosaZrobad sagrialo fulebis
amosaqaCad, eqskluziurad TbilisisTvis SemoiRes.
“ali baba garekil I-ss” qobuleTis gaTurqebis sakiTxze metad
sCans qobuleTis gaarmeneba aqvs
ganzraxuli, naTelia. armeniaSi
swavla pirvel seqtembers iwyeba.
CemisTana qarTvelebic, mSvidi dasasvenebisTvis, da qarTul mxare-
tonma, armenebis uaryofiTi damokidebuleba garegin II-iis mimarT
Riad daafiqsira. garegin II-ss
Turme ieRovelebisa da mormonebis seqtebi, sxva seqtebTan erTad, religiis rangSi auyvania da
Tavad armenul eklesiaSic ganxeTqilebaa amis Taobazeo. stefanianis provokatorul saqmianobazec visaubreT da swori informa-
Si dasvenebas am dros arCevs. swored seqtembris dasawyisSi Cadis
aWaraSi. miuxedavad amisa, sruli
SegrZneba iyo, rom armeniis mier
oupirebul regionSi imyofebodi.
armenuli warwerebi, simRerebi da
amis
yvelgan armenuli saubari
srul gancdas iwvevda. marTalia,
Cvenma mTavrobam, saqarTveloSi da
aWaraSi “turizmis ayvavebiT” yurebi gamogviWeda. Tumca is ar
icis, rom am tiraJirebuli turizmis infrastruqturas aWaraSi
mtrebi gamouCnda. Cveni sastumros
win mdebare bungalos restoranSi
SuaRamemde erTmaneTs gamayruebeli xmiT, qarTuli, rusuli da
somxuri simRerebi cvlida. dasasveneblad Camosuli turistebisadmi aseTma adgebulma damokidebulebam, kerZo vizitiT Camusuli
amerikeli turistebic ki aRaSfoTa da maT saswrafod datoves qo-
ciis gacvlisTvis, erTmaneTis
“imeilebic” gavcvaleT. “warmoSobiT javaxeTidan var, iq davibade,
erevanSi vcxovrob da yovel
zafxuls me da mamaCemi Cvens sofelSi, “Cvens faravnis” tbaze
davdivarTo”. mogviyva 15 wlis genocdizec. rogoria? armeniidan,
adamianebi rogorc sakuTar sofelSi, ise dadian saqarTvelos
teritoriaze. an gasakviri raa,
rodesac “ ali baba garekil I-iisa
da misi nacionali yaCaRebis xelSi, saqarTvelos sazRvrebis demarkaciac ar aris gakeTebuli.
romel mezobels, rogorc unda
ise moiwevs da gvaWris miwawyals. “ormagi moqalaqeoba unda
aviRo da qarTuli unda viswavloo”_ miTxra armenma erminem.
“is ki ara, karg qarTvel biWsac
SeiZleba gavyve, oRond cota armenuli sisxlic unda erioso”.
armenebis prezidentis, serJ sarqisianis gancxadebas Tu gaviTvaliswinebT, is javaxeTis mosaxelobisTvis armenulis regionalur enad aRiarebas moiTxovs,
oRond principiT _ “integracia
asimilaciis gareSe”. es ki karg
qarTvelTan, Tundac “cota armenuli sisxliT narevTan” urTierTobas gamoricxavs. ase rom, Cems
axal nacnobs _ ermines qarTvelze gaTxoveba ar uweria?! misive
monaTxrobiT, armenebs hgoniaT,
rom saqarTvelo yvavis. armeniaSi
iseTive gaWirveba yofila, rogorc CvenTan. (Cveni regionebis
msagavsad, rasac televiziiT uyureben sjeraT, rom biznesebi damoukidebelia, gadasaxadebi dabali
da pensia uzarmazari. ”me aq Camovdivar da vici, simarTle rac
ariso”. iqneb armeniaSi simarTle
rom gaigon _ saqarTvelos Tavi
daanebon?! “javaxkSi”, rogorc
ermine uwodebs javaxeTs, bevrsaa
aqvs armenuli pasporti. es ki
afxazeTSi da samaCabloSi mezobeli qveynis pasportebis darigebis
analogias waagavs. “garekil ali I
da nacionali yaCaRebi” arc amaze
“ibartyuneben yurs”. metic, saqarTvelos istorias amaxinjeben
da cvlian. Cems axal nacnobTan
saubrebisas mivxvdi, rom maT dabadebidan araswor istorias aswavlian da unergaven, rom javaxeTi maTi istoriuli miwaa?! rogor, javaxeTSi 30-iian wlebSi dasaxldiT-T
Tqo vuTxari. Tqvens genocidze rom saubrob, 18-119
wlis, TbilisSi armenebis SemoWra da axalgazrda oficrebis
amowyvetac gaixsene-T
Tqo. amis Sesaxeb araferi smenia da gaocebuli mismenda. vkiTxe, aq daibade.
mogwons. aravin gagdebs aqedan.
gaTxovebasac ki apireb da sabolood, saqarTveloSi javaxeTis
bedi rogor warmogidgeniaT javaxeTis armenebs-T
Tqo? Cven, armenebs,
yarabaRis msagavsad, “javaxeTis”
avtonomia warmogvidgenia, oRond
gveSinia ferganis msgavsi movlenebi ar ganmeordeso. aucileblad
ganmeordeba-mmeTqi. Cven imdeni miwa-w
wyali davkargeT, sxvaTa Soris, nawili Tqvens teritoriad
iTvleba, rom qarTvelebi dRes
amas aRar daTmoben-mmeTqi. am axalgazrda qals javaxeTi marTla Tavisi miwa-w
wyali hgonia. bavSvobidan ase aswavlian da misi brali
ar aris. seriozuli muSaoba, samecniero doneze istoriuli wyaroebis wamowevaa saWiro. faqtia,
rom aseTi adamianebis ukan bevria
“daSnakuri organizaciebis” provokatori agentebi.
qveynis realuri aRmSenebloba
da istoriuli kanonierebis aRdgena da qveynis samarTlebriv, saerTaSoriso CarCoebSi Casma, pirvel etapze, 1801 wlis kanonierebis aRdgeniT unda daviwyoT da
TandaTan mivyveT yvelafers. anu
konstituciur monarqiaze gadavideT. amiT Cvens miwa-w
wyalze mezobeli saxelmwifoebis uzomo madasac avlagmavT. evropul monarqiul ojaxSi SesvliT ki avtomaturad im ganviTrebadi qveynis
statusidanac gamovalT, ris gamoc gaanadgures yvelaferi. amas,
TavisTavad, ganaTlebis, jandacvisa da a.S normaluri done mohyveba. avcdebiT mona-mmosamsaxure
erad Camoyalibebasac. araqarTuli warmomavlobis mmarTvelis
Tavgasul parpaSsa da ucxo qveynidan marTul, marionet prezidentsac. imitom, rom “ali baba
garekil I-iisa da misi nacionali
yaCaRebisa” da igive opozicioneri politikosebis xelSi, saqarTveloSi qarTvel kacs bednieri
cxovreba ar uweria. axal mosuli prezidenric, sabolood, saTavisod moixmars saqarTvelos
da vin icis, kidev ras moimoqmedebs.
baia amaSukeli
18 saerTo gazeTi
Wkvianma icis da gkiTxavs
Cemi mizani dReidan aRar
aris did qarTul politikaSi
gamoCenili biZina ivaniSvilis
Rvawlsa da kaiymobaze wera. Cven
amaze ukve saerTo, Camoyalibebuli mosazreba gvaqvs. panegirikas
unda SeveSvaT, eiforiidan gamovideT da saqmes mivxedoT, saqmiT
davdgeT am kacs gverdiT da arc
is daviviwyoT, rom amiT mas ki
ar davexmarebiT, aramed mamuls,
momavals da sakuTar Tavs.
raSi unda gamoixatos es Tanadgoma?
uwinaresad, am etapze, saqmiani winadadebebisa da rCevebis
gacxadebaSi. qarTvelma sazogadoebriobam sainformacio saSalebebiT unda Seqmnas rCevebisa
da ideebis Taviseburi banki, romelsac batoni biZina da misi
Stabi daamuSaveben, riTac erTis
mxriv sworad dainaxaven da Tavidan aicileben riskebs, meres
mxriv ki efeqturad `daazianeben~ mowinaaRmdegis `sacecxle
wertilebs~.
gasagebia, rom axla uamrav
patriots aqvs baton biZinasTan
Sexvedris da gasaubrebis survili, magram es gamoricxulia ori
mizezis gamo: pirveli _ uzarmazari nakadis axlo xanebSi miReba praqtikulad ganuxorcilebelia; meore _ es mizanSeuwonelia
usafrTxoebis TvalsazrisiT.
amdenad, vfiqrobT, TanamSromlobis aseTi forma pirvel
etapze yovelanairad gamarTlebulia, xolo batoni biZina, imedia, erTi sparsuli sibrZniT gamogvexmaureba: `Wkvianma icis da
gkiTxavs, uWkuom ar icis da ar
gkiTxavs~.
mamuli, ena,
sarwmunoeba
batono biZina, is, vinc Tqveni mimarTvebi da interviuebi waikiTxa, SeuZlebelia Tqvens siqveleSi (siqvele martooden
qvelmoqmedeba araa, igi uSiSroba da vaJkacobac aris _ gavixsenoT farsman qveli) da mamuliSvilobaSi daeWvdes. magram es
imedi da ndoba kidev ufro gaibrwyinebs Tu sityvebTan _`demokratia~, `Tavisufleba~, `Tanamegobroba~ da sxva misTanasTan
erTad xSirad gaiJRerebs: `eri~,
`mamuli~, `samSoblo~, `qarTuli
cnobiereba~, `ilia~ da sxva. pirveli noembris preskonferenciaze marTlac sanimuSo gamosvlis
gvirgvini iyo winadadeba: `me
vxedavdi, rom vkargavdi samSoblos da politikaSi amitom movedi~. gulis siRrmidan daZrulma am sityvebma milionobiT qarTvelis gulSi gaiara. ar dagaeWvoT iman, rom Rirseuli winaprebis saxelis xsenebis gamo vinmem fariseveli xelisuflebis
wevrebTan gaavlos paraleli.
mTavaria, romeli WurWlidan
gadmoedineba sityva.
samSoblos rom siyvarulSi
gamoutydebi adamiani, amas ras
sjobs, miTumetes maSin, roca
bolomde gaqvs SegrZnobili misi
fesvebi da am fesvebis naJuri.
saqarTvelo ar aris is qveyana,
romelmac evropelobiT unda
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
ikeklucos (sul sxvaa masTan
mWidro TanamSromloba, riskenac
yovelTvis iswrafvoda Cveni qveyana). masxendeba markiz de kiustenis sityvebi: `me rusebs ar
vkicxav imisTvis, rac namdvilad
arian, magram vgmob maT survils
Tavi evropelebad mogvaCvenon...
SeiZleboda imedi ar dagvekarga
maTi kulturuli SeTvisebisa,
rom maimunebiviT ar baZavdnen
sxva erebs da imavdroulad ar
dascinodnen maT, visac baZaven~.
es naTqvami martooden rusebs
rodi Seexeba. mimbaZveloba gansakuTrebiT damamcirebelia iseTi
erisTvis, romelic uZvelesi
msoflio civilizaciis wiaRSi
warmoiSva da Camoyalibda. Cveni
sisxlismieri gancda, sulieri
mimoqcva da warmosaxva, Cveni
qmedeba Cvens enaSi, simReraSi,
rokvaSi, samiwaTmoqmedo kulturaSi da kosmogonur warmodgenebSia. ai, amas gulisxmobs iliaseuli triada `mamuli, ena,
sarwmunoeba~ (da ara `ena, mamuli sarwmunoeba~, rogorc e.w.
`cnobadi saxeebi~ warmosTqvamen
SecdomiT). ai, am triadas unda
davubrunoT bolo Jams dabeCavebuli Cveni eri, raTa kvlavac maradisobas gausworos Tvali.
batono biZina, rogorc xsenebul preskonferenciaze brZaneT, im SemTxvevaSic ki Tu saakaSvils Tundac mis mier morgebul konstituciur CarCoebSi
ver daabrunebT da igi xalxis
nebas win aRudgeba, Tqven sxva
saSualebebiT SesZlebT mis `daSoSminebas~ (es ukanaskneli Cemi
sityva _ g.q.).
intuicia mkarnaxobs, rom
Tqven martooden saerTaSoriso
zewolisa da xalxis nebis gamoxatulebis imedi ara gaqvT, da
ar gaqvT imitom, rom, I. Tundac
aSS-is zewolisa Tu rCevis miuxedavad saakaSvilis gadadgomis
imedi minimaluria. mas
moulodnelad romc gauCndes aseTi survili,
Zneli dasajerebelia,
`saqmeSi gasulma~ Tu
gasvrilma
Tanagundelebma amis neba darTon.
II. xalxis nebis mSvidobian gamoxatulebas es
reJimi fizikur Zalas
daupirispirebs. simarTle mogaxsenoT, didi
daZabulobiTa da SiSiT
vuyurebdi preskonferencias, romelsac SeiZleboda `JurnalistTa~
Soris dapirispireba da
yvelas megobari
aravis megobari araa
sicruea is, rom viTomdac
politikaSi megobroba ar arsebobs, _ politikanebis moWorili
ambavia es. roca politikaSi
eriskacebi midian, maSin samSoblos siyvaruliT gulanTebuli
adamianebi, Tundac gansxvavebuli
xasiaTisani, aucileblad megobrdebian. amis magaliTi zviadi da
merabi iyvnen. magram amasTanave
`yvelas megobari aravis megobari
ara aris~-o ambobda platoni.
cia, magram Tvals miefareba Tu
ara, saTavisod Wris da keravs.
arcTu ise didi xnis winaT
Tqveni da Tqveni fondis saxeliTa da Rvawlis xsenebiT erTma
diacma Tqvens mona-morCils cudi saqme moswia _ erovnuli saqmis keTebaSi xeli SeuSala. am
ambis gamowvlilviT Tqma axla
arc egebis da arc amis droa,
magram gaxsenebiT imitom gavixsene, rom momavalSi aseTi recidivebi aviciloT Tavidan.
ager, batono, mere faqti:
Tqven rom erT-erT politikur
partias TanamromSloba SesTavazeT, imave Tu meore dRes misma
diaxac, saqarTvelos gamTlianebisa da gamarjvebis mosurne
kacma yvelasTan unda iTanamSromlos, magram yvelasTan, gansakuTrebiT ki iseT politikur
ZalebTan damegobreba, romelTac
kviraSi Svidi paraskevi aqvT da
viTarca lerwamni niavis mcireoden daqrolvazec aqeT-iqiT irwevian, miuRebelia. miuRebelia
es imitom, rom sazogadoeba maT
safuZvlianad ar endoba.
mliqvnelebis amocnoba iolia, farisevlebisa ki rTuli.
farisevlebi Rupaven ideebs,
saqmeebs, qveynebsa da xalxebs.
farisevlebma awames macxovari.
fariseveli is kacia, romelic ar mliqvnelobs da imanWeba TavkacTan, magram yvelafers
sakuTar interesebs anacvalebs,
sityviT da gamoxedviT eriska-
erT-erTma liderma `kavkasiis~
eTerSi ise isaubra, TiTqos,
sxva politikuri Zalebis arCeva,
TqvenTan erTad misi partiis
prerogativac iyo. ai, farisevlobis erTi aSkara magaliTi!
RvTis gulisaTvis, mendeT, rasac
vambob _ aseTia yvela patriotis gancda, mendeT aseve, rom
patriotTa umetesoba, romelic
uaRresad gaxarebulia biZina
ivaniSvilis did politikaSi da
brZolis velze gamoCeniT, gulis kuTxeSi mcire tkivils mainc ganicdis uyuradRebobis gamo. isini imasac xvdebian, rom
SesaZloa, brZolis pirvel etapze, `politikuri Calmac~ aucilebelia, magram Tu saxlis balavari sworad ar daido, kedeli, rkinisac rom iyos, mainc gadaiqceva. aris erTi aseTi WeSmaritebac: niWieri kaci erTxel
meore mizezi, modiT, marto Cven
vicodeT.
imedi
meore
sulia
Tu gsurs mSvidoba,
emzade omisTvis!
misasalmebelia `xelisuflebis~ (ratom vsvam am sityvas
brWyalebSi, odnav qveviT mogaxsenebT) mSvidobinad, arCevnebiT
Secvlis survili, quCis aqciebze da mitingebze uaris Tqma. ki,
rogor ara, oRond im SemTxvevaSi, roca saqme gvaqvs cud an
Tundac Zalian cud xelisuflebasTan, axla ki Cven Sinaur
mters vupirispirdebiT. sxvaTaSoris, es Tqvens mierac iyo
gacxadebuli pirveli noembris
preskonfereniaze.
XIV saukuneSi cnobili qarTveli Tavadi da sazogado moRvawe qucna amirejibi niadag aRma-daRma dahqroda da diplomatiiT cdilobda lang-Temuris
laSqrobebis Sekavebas, avadmyofuri fsiqikis dampyrobma ki mainc rvajer aaoxra saqarTvelo.
me ara mgonia, rom sulieri
mdgradobiT saakaSvili bevrad
ukeTesi iyos lang-Temurze.
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
ze
inspirirebuli
Cxubi
mohyoloda, rac, albaT,
Tqvens
rezidenciaSi
specnazis
SemoWriT
dasruldeboda. gavixsenoT `kavkasiis~ magaliTi. Tu am mcdelobas
Tqvens
teritoriaze
naklebi warmateba elis,
sxvagan win veraferi daudgeba.
Rrmad viyoT darwmunebuli, rom saTanado
uwyebebSi ramdenime mzakvruli proeqti igegmeba, maT Soris teraqtebi da TviTteraqtebi,
fsevdoopoziciuri partiebis mier mowyobili manifestaciebi da
areulobebi, Tqveni `momxreebis~
aRiarebiTi Cvenebebi da Tqven
warmoidgineT, saomari moqmedebebic ki romelime ajanyebuli regionis~ winaaRmdeg. am ukanasknel varauds mxars ubams ruseTis dazvervis Sefis al. Sliaxturovis bolo gancxadeba afxazeTsa da cxinvalis regionSi
mosalodneli provokaciebis Sesaxeb. erTi sityviT, sabolood,
xalxis quCaSi gamosvlas da ZalasTan Zalis dapirispirebas
mxolod saswauli Tu agvacilebs, politikur brZolaSi ki
saswaulebi ar xdeba. mwams, am
ambavs arc Tqven gamoricxavT,
magram ori mizezis gamo ver amxelT: erTi imitom, rom gulwrfelad ar gsurT e.w. kadafizacia da meorec imitom, rom... es
saerTo gazeTi 19
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
Tu SemogTavazebs sakuTar samsaxurs, uniWo ki kars agitalaxebs. amitom niWier
kacs, gulanTebul patriots Sen unda dauZaxo. yvelaze niWieri is aris, visac niWieri uyvars.
endeT, magram SeamowmeT Tqveni axlobeli politikuri Tanamzraxvelebi: vis uweven da vis ara rekomendacias. Tavadac
TqviT da aqamdec icoda xalxma, rom biZina ivaniSvili kadrebs jer profesionalizmis, mere ki patiosnebisa da megobrobis mixedviT arCevs. gTxovT, am CamonaTvals TavSi daumatoT `patriotizmi~, an arada, rogorc cxonebuli revaz TabukaSvili ityoda, visurvebdi profesionalizmi patriotizmis erT-erTi umTavresi gamoxatuleba
iyos TqvenTvis.
ena uklitod morbedi
RvTis gangeba aseTia: Wkviani kaci mcireds saubrobs, suleli an avanturisti _
bevrs. kargad uTqvams la oZis _ `brZeni
dums, umecari laybobs~-o, magram arc vaxtang VI-is naTqvamia naklebi: `ena uklitod
morbedi, Wiria ulxinobeli~. qarTvelma
kacma kargad icis am sibrZnis yadri _ erTxel ki mousmens soflis Saraze gamomdgar `oqropirs~, magram mere da mere yurs
aRar aTxovebs da yeeniviT gaamasxravebs.
Svidi welia am dReSia qarTveli kaci, Svidi welia neronis usamarTlobiT, takimasxarobiTa da sisuleleebiT itanjeba. amas
imitom vambob, rom biZina ivaniSvilis gamoCeniT da misi sidarbaisliT gulze moefina sazogadoebas: ampartavnebis wil didsulovneba, mtrobis wil siyvaruli, mSiSrobis wil vaJkacoba, laybobis wil mozomili sityva gaigona da dainaxa. imaze didi
piari ra unda iyos TqvenTvis, rom sakuTari personiT arasdros SegibezrebiaT Tavi
xalxisTvis. merwmuneT, es 5,5 miliardze
naklebi qoneba ar aris da misi gaflangva
politikuri gakotrebis tolfasi iqneba.
Cemi, rogorc erTi rigiTi qarTvelisa
da amomrCevlis survilia, rom Tqveni saxe
da sityva arc amas aqeT gacvTes. xalxis
winaSe sajaro da satelevizio gamosvlebi
kvlavac mkacrad reglamentirebuli iyos,
xolo sityva Zalian mokle da konkretuli. SeiZleba ar gesiamovnoT an iucxooT,
magram am mxriv, stalinis gamocdileba unikaluria. zeviT naTqvamidan gamomdinare, SeiZleba gakvirveba gamoiwvios Cemma meore
survilma: saWiroa kidev ufro gaaqtiureba, oRond ise, rom kulminacias saWiro
dros miaRwios. ismis SekiTxva: rogor unda gaaqtiurdeT Tu televiziiT da sajaro
gamosvlebiT ipasiurebT. ai, aq aris saWiro iseTi gundi politikuri mociqulebisa, romelTac darbaiseli oratorebisa da
WeSmariti mamuliSvilebis reputacia aqvT.
aRebuli tempis dagdeba ar SeiZleba. es
pirveli SemTxvevaa, roca e.w. xelisufleba sakuTari karis usafrTxoebaze gadaerTo da TamaSi mis naxevarze mimdinareobs.
safexburTo enaze rom vTqvaT, Setevebi unda gagrZeldes manamde, sanam mowinaaRmdege
sabolood ar danebdeba, jerjerobiT ki angariSi mxolod 1:0-ia. sakmarisia, seriozuli kontrSeteva gamogveparos, rom yvelaferi wyalSi gadaiyreba.
zeviT ramdenime xifaTi da kontrSeteva ki vaxseneT, magram araferi gviTqvams
iseT sibilweebze, rogoricaa piradad
Tqveni da Tqveni ojaxis Seuracxyofis
survili, Worebis agoreba, daqiravebuli
piitikosebis skabrezuli gaaqtiureba da
a.S. Tu simSvides SevinarCunebT, am Setevebis mogerieba ar gagviWirdeba, radgan am
mxriv aqeT gacilebiT didi resursia. Tanac xom viciT, rom, roca sayaned Waobian
niadags vamzadebT, bayayebis yiyinsac unda
SeveguoT.
SeiZleba bevrma gaikvirvos Tu rodidan
movkide xeli iseT umadur saqmes, rogoric
mrCevlobaa da romeli solomon lioni- Ze
var, magram aris Jami, roca umoqmedoba da
dumili Ralatia. me aq vdgavar da sxvagvarad ar ZalmiZs!
Cveni samSoblo axla Zalian gaWirvebulia, gaWirvebulisaTvis ki imedi meore sulia.
imedi gamoCnda, magram Tu igi daikarga,
saqarTvelo erTxans suliT daobldeba.
gela qoqiaSvili
ukavSirdeba Tu ara vasil sanoZis
daWris ambavi totalizatorebSi momxdar
saerTaSoriso xasiaTis afioras?
Sss-s generaluri inspeqciis ufros
vasil sanoZis daWris ambavma mexis gavardnis efeqti gamoiwvia. oficialuri
versiiT, TiTqos mas tabeluri iaraRi
gauvarda da Tavis areSi daiWra, Tumca
sazogadoebam es informacia naklebad
daijera. isic iTqva, rom daWramde sanoZe restoran `puris saxlSi~ imyofeboda da iqauroba nasvam mgomareobaSi
myofma datova. am sufraze ramdenime
adamiani iyo, maT Soris frangi stumrebic. Sss-s administraciis ufrosma SoTa xizaniSvilma oficialuri informacia gaavrcela, rom sanoZes iaraRi sakuTar binaSi gauvarda.
sanoZis mezoblebis TqmiT, misi binidan xmauri ki SemoesmaT, Tumca iaraRidan gasrolis xma ar gaugoniaT. am informaciam garkveuli eWvi maSinve gaaCina. ise vrceldeboda xmebi, rom sanoZes
an esroles, anda Tavis mokvla aiZules.
uflebadamcvelebi am incidents sandro
girgvlianis mkvlelobis saqmes ukavSirebdnen, radgan swored im periodSi gamoitana evrosasamarTlom am saqmeze gadawyvetileba. mkvlelobis mcdelobaa
Tu TviTmkvlelobis, am saqmeSi xelisuflebis xeli ureviao.
sanoZe ,,saswrafo daxmarebis~ avtomanqaniT gadaiyvanes RuduSauris klinikaSi da dacvis zomebi ise iyo gaZlierebuli, saavadmyofoSi pacientebsac ki
ar uSvebdnen. mogvianebiT, mZimed daWrili sanoZe israelis erT-erT klinikaSi
gadaiyvanes da male es ambavi yvelas miaviwyda. sad imyofeba sanoZe da ra mdgomareobaSia, amis Sesaxeb xelisufleba
dums. `saerTo gazeTs~ isic uTxres,
rom igi gamonjarmTelda, saqarTveloSi
dabrunda da Sss-Si Tanamdebobazec daniSnes, Tumca am faqts ar axmaurebeno.
sanoZis irgvliv rom Savi Rrubeli
grovdeboda, amis Sesaxeb bevrad adre
gaxda cnobili. mas prokuraturasTan dapirispireba, rom hqonda
da mis winaaRmdeg es uwyeba kompromatebs rom agrovebda, es informacia masmediiT zafxulSi
gavrcelda. sanoZis daWrasac am
faqts ukavSirebdnen. sanoZem prokuraturis ramdenime TanamSromeli daaWerina da SurisZiebis mizniT, prokuraturas misi daWerac
undoda qrTamis aRebis braldebiTo. sabolood am yvelafers yofili policieli Seewira, romelsac e.w. TaRliTobisTvis 12
weli miusajes, radgan man sanoZis sawinaaRmdego Cveneba ar misca.
cota xnis win `saerTo gazeTs~ anonimurma wyarom sagulisxmo informacia miawoda, romelic sanoZis daWris mizezebs ki ara
Tavad daWris faqtsac eWvqveS ayenebs.
Cven am informaciis sizusteze Tavs ver
davdebT, magram yvela versias aqvs arsebobis ufleba, amitom Tavs valdebulad
vTvliT mkiTxvels mivawodoT. miTumetes, rom, rogorc gviTxres, es samTavrobo wreebidan gamoJonili informaciaa.
lod xelmZRvanelobda am yvelafers. es
fsonebi iseT xalxis saxeliT ideboda,
romelTa gaSifvrac, cxadia, xelisuflebas ar awyobda. dadebdnen am 100.000s Tu milions da zustad ise damTavrdeboda TamaSi, rogorc winaswar iyo
gaTvlili. amiT ki ormag Tanxas igebdnen. xsenebul qveynebSi uzarmazari totalizatorebia, sadac Zalze didi fuli trialebs. specialurad SearCies
iseTi qveynebi, sadac ufro gulubryvilo xalxi cxovrobs. amxela fsonebma
da mogebebma zeda eSelonebSi eWvi gaaCina da daiwyo gamoZieba. cxadia, viRacaze unda gasuliyven. gavidnen kidec,
magram maTi gaSifvra ar awyobdaT. adgnen da am yvelafers Seswires sanoZe,
iseve rogorc, Tavis droze irakli kodua. ki imizezeben raRacebs, magram yvelam xom icis, rom kodua realurad,
iaraRis bizness Seewira. sodi faqtobrivad, gaauqmes da mas Sss-Si sakmaod mokrZalebuli Tanamdeboba misces.
sanoZe rom daeWiraT, alaparakdeboda, rac xelisuflebas ar awyobda. am
qveynebidan uzarmazari Tanxebia wamoRebuli da saeWvoa, rom amiT marto igi
sargeblobda. amitomac gaiTamaSes es
daWris scena, rom sanoZe saqarTvelodan
sazogadoebas kargad axsovs im fexburTelebis ambavi, romlebic e.w. gayidul matCebs TamaSobdnen. es fexburTelebi ki dasajes, magram saqme aqve Sewyda. vin ukveTavda maT aseT TamaSebs sazogadoebisTvis ucnobi darCa. wyaros
informaciiT, am `biznesSi~ kargad gaTvlili sqema muSaobda, romelsac merabiSvilis uwyeba kurirebda. uSualod ki
vasil sanoZe xelmZRvanelobda.
axla ki konkretulad am sqemaze visaubroT. mogexsenebaT, totalizatorebi mTel msoflioSi da maT Soris aziis qveynebSic muSaobs. uceb aRmoCnda,
rom yazaxeTSi, uzbekeTSi, yirgizeTSi
da ufro metic, CineTSi viRacviRacebi Zalze seriozul fsonebs debdnen qarTul safexburTo gundebze, Tumca jobs, Cvens
wyaros movusminoT:
`100.000 aSS dolarze naklebi arcerTi fsoni ar yofila. ranairi gulSematkivari
unda iyos Tbiliseli kaci Tundac Tbilisis `dinamosi~, rom
yazaxeTsa da CineTSi Cavides
totalizatorSi fsonis dasadebad. gaxsovT, gayidul TamaSebze rusTavis `olimpikis~ da
sxva gundebis fexburTelebi Cavardnen. Cinelebma da yazaxebma
mgoni isic ar ician, sad aris
rusTavi da samtredia. cxadia,
rom am gundebze qarTvelebi
debdnen fsons, romlebic Sss-s
TanamSromlebi iyvnen, maT Soris yofila sanoZec. igi uSua-
moeSorebinaT. saqme imaSia, rom Turme
is sasikvdilod daWrili arc yofila.
an iyo ki saerTod daWrili (sanoZis mezoblebmac xom Tqves, rom gasrolis xma
ar gaugiaT – m.s.)? sxvaTa Soris eqimebisgan gamovida es informacia. mere ise
gaaformes yvelaferi, rom TiTqos qorwilidan wamosul sanoZes SemTxveviT
gauvarda iaraRi da uceb moaSores aqaurobas, viTom samkurnalod gauSves. Tu
ar Cacxreboda am totalizatorebTan
dakavSirebuli ambebi, mere albaT, imasac
ityodnen, rom mokvdao. sulac aRar Camovidoda igi saqarTveloSi da romelime qveyanaSi icxovrebda.
Caawyves es yvelaferi da im ramdenime fexburTelze gadatexes joxi, molaparakebuli iyvnen da Cawyobil TamaSebs
TamaSobdneno. visTan iyvnen molaparakebuli, imaze ratom ar gavidnen? aq Caawyobdnen saqmes, vis rogor unda eTamaSa, miscemdnen maT 5-5 aTas dolars,
TviTon ki milionebs igebdnen. mere daiWires es sawyali xalxi, viRacas samudamod aukrZales fexburTis TamaSi da
amiT damTavrda yvelaferi~.
verafers vityviT, mSvenieri sqemaa
fulis saSovnelad da miT umetes gasaTeTreblad. ise, saeWvoa, xelisufleba
am mogebebis kanonierebiT dainteresebuliyo, magram Turme aziis qveynebSi iseTi siswrafiT kotrdeboda totalizatorebi, rom Tavad am qveynebSi gaCenila
eWvi. etyoba, kvalma saqarTvelosTan moiyvana da nacxelisufleba iZulebuli
gaxda `gadamWreli zomebi~ mieRo.
manana suxiSvili
20 saerTo gazeTi
gvesaubreba
leliko jafariZe.
_ batono leliko, xeli suflebaSi areuloba dawyebula, Tqven xom araferi iciT
amis Sesaxeb?
_ minda danamdvilebiT
giTxraT is, rac Cemi yuriT
movismine. mirekaven guriidan,
samegrelodan, svaneTidan, samcxe-javaxeTidan iseTi xalxi,
sul rom cali fexiT Camomkidon, mainc ver vityvi maT
gvar-saxelebs. es xalxi meubneba: amzadeben jars, wvrTnian
da ar ikiTxavT, vis agroveben?
_ probacionerebs. emuqrebian:
ar wamoxvalT, isev cixeSi SegabrunebTo.
yvelasTvis cnobilia, sasroleTi rom gamarTes da iq
avarjiSeben xalxs. samoqalaqo
omisTvis emzadebian biWebi.
areuloba sWirdeba, etyoba,
miSas axla, am TmaSeRebil degenerats... magram am bolo
dros veRar iRebavs, Tmebs rezo amaSukelis SiSiT.
miSa saakaSvilis saqme, batonebo, moTavebulia ukve,
gvamia es kaci da veraviTari
Tmis Rebva da vizaJisti veRar
uSvelis.
_ sasikvdilo dartyma ivaniSvilma miayena, Tqveni azriT?
_ diax, batono da aferum,
biZinas vakacobas, aqamde rom
saidumlod Seinaxa Tavisi ganzraxva da moulodnelad rom
Casca maxvili.
awi, veRaraferi ver uSvelis saakaSvils, isea dazafruli TviTon da misi garemocva. karuselebiT cdiloben
viTom situaciis gamosworebas. ager axla kvezereli gauSva da gorozia moiyvana. kvezereli rac iyo da vinc iyo,
dainaxa mTelma saqarTvelom,
magram goroziam ra icis soflis meurneobis? eqimi varo,
rom ambobs, magas klizma rom
daaWerino xelSi, t...s ver miagnebs.
es ubedurebi raRacas epotinebian, magram aRaraferi uSveliT. areuloba aqvT SigniT,
mTavrobaSi da es ambebi gamoaqvT iqedan. yvelaferi viciT,
rac iq xdeba.
_ Tqven saidan iciT, iq,
mTavrobaSi ra xdeba?
_ mirekaven da meubnebian:
ra vqnaT, ras gvirCev?! me veubnebi: dahkariT fexi da gaiqeciT, sanam kidev droa-meTqi.
sastikad eSiniaT ivaniSvilis da xalxis. male vixilavT
yvela maTgans soroebSi SemZvrals, an Cemodanze Semomjdars da gaqceuls, magram roca mova samarTliani xelisufleba da erovnuli xalxi. aravis SerCeba qveynis gaRleta
da gaZarcva.
_ ivaniSvili Tu movida
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
xelisuflebaSi, Tqveni azriT,
samarTali izeimebs? aqa-iiq,
sxvaTa Soris, ar vici, ra informaciaze dayrdnobiT, mag ram mainc, amboben, Tuki xels
saakaSvilisken iSverT, arc
ivaniSvili gaxlavT qarTvelio.
lda araferi, axla TiTqmis
maTxovrad var qceuli, magram
kacoba da adamianoba ar damikargavs.
bargiani mkvdari ginaxavT
sadme? saflavSi veravin verafers Caitans da es SesaniSnavad icis ivaniSvilma, amitomac
_ batono leliko, ase yve laferi mogwonT ivaniSvilis?
saerTod unaklod migaCniaT?
_ Cemo iranda, me Cemi qveynis bed-iRbals dadarajebuli
kaci var da Cemi xalxi minda
gavafrTxilo _ vici, ivaniSvilma imedi gamoufxizla
xalxs, magram, xalxo, biZina
aris biZina da RmerTi CvenTvis
aris erTi. ar gavaRmerToT
ivaniSvili, kerpad nu warmovidgenT, arc is davRupoT da
Tavsac gavufrTxildeT.
rac Seexeba imas, maqvs Tu
ara SeniSvna. maqvs. biZina
ivaniSvili aris zedmetad
inteligenti. am mTavrobas ki
muSti unda cxvirSi. amas
ver gaakeTebs ivaniSvili da
es unda gavakeToT Cven, xalxma.
biZina kulturiT aRsavse
kacia da es gamoCnda preskonferenciaze. gafacicebiT vumzerdi, sad SeeSleboda, yve-
Si, anda sxva planetaze, ras
ityodnen maSin?! ivaniSvili
ucxoplaneteliao?!
gaminawyendebian am simarTlisTvis is Jurnalistebi Tu
ara, sul ar mainteresebs _ I
arxisTvis, `rusTavi-2~-sTvis,
`imedisTvis~ arasdros mimicia
interviu da arc vapireb, simarTle Tu gindaT.
_ Jurnalistma unda dasvas
kiTxva, amis gamo gabutva ar
SeiZleba, batono leliko.
_ gasagebia, Tqven Jurnalisti xarT da mxars uWerT
kolegebs, magram is simarTle,
rac unda hqondes Jurnalists, vamCnev, rom ara aqvs
yvelas.
ki, aucilebelia mZafri SekiTxvebi, magram gaaCnia dros,
viTarebas, situacias. ivaniSvils jer araferi dauSavebia
iseTi, mtrad rom gadaekidos
vinme da jibrSi Caudges.
Jurnalistebi im dRes
Saliko, valiko da yvela gaCumdes
da visac rogor SeuZlia, ise
dadges ivaniSvilis gverdiT...
_ mecineba pirdapir, vin,
kaco, es Worvileli kaci araa
qarTveli? kargiT, raa. araqarTveli da kerZod, pirwavardnili somexi aris mixeil saakaSvili, amas wyali ar gauva
da yvelam icis dRes es ambavi.
arCevnebSi saakaSvili yvelgan agebda, magram sabolood marneuli, gardabani da es
mxare Sveloda, ratom? imitom, rom, somxeTis da azerbaijanis mTavroba mouwodebda
TavianT xalxs, mieciT xma saakaSvilis da SeRavaTebs da
privilegiebs miiRebTo. aqvT
kidevac araqarTvelebs qarTvelebTan SedarebiT privilegiebi im regionebSi, magram erTxel da samudamod, sarqisianma da alievma daanebon Tavi saakaSvilis mxardaWeras, politikuri gvamia ukve Tqveni mixeili!
qveyana Tavze engreva am
aranormalurs da kidev piarze
fiqrobs? saqarTvelo _ somxeTis sazRvarze rom miwisZvra moxda, gamovida es ubeduri da kidev imaze daiwyo laparaki: somxeTis teritoriaze
gzebi araa gakeTebuli da imitom moxda es tragediao.
kacia, axla, es? da xalxi
arian, vinc am gadareulis
gverdiT dganan? keTildReoba
warmavalia da amaSi me TviTonac davrwmundi. 40 wlis ganmavlobaSi moskovSi araCveulebrivad vcxovrobdi, ar mak-
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
ze
aqvs gakeTebuli araerTi keTili saqme, qvelmoqmedeba, Worviladan da saCxeridan dawyebuli mTeli TbilisiT damTavrebuli.
_ axla am yvelafers po litikuri aqtivobac miemata
da moiTmens amdens xelisuf leba?
_ dRes rom viyo 30
wlis
axalgazrda,
davdgebodi ivaniSvilis karebTan da sadac wavidoda, gverdidan ar movcildebodi, rom misTvis damiznebuli tyvia me
momxvedroda.
badri
patarkaciSvilis
saflavs venacvale, iseTi ram
kidev rom moxdes, damTavrebulia saqarTvelos ambavi.
badris periodis situacia
dRevandelisgan mkveTrad gansxvavdeboda, dRes xalxi TviTon aris mzad yvelafris Sesacvlelad.
zogierTi ambobs, mitingebi
da gamosvlebi ar unda ivaniSvils da arCevnebamde jer kidev Soriao. vin unda gamarTos
mitingi. isev im opoziciam?
romlebsac araerTxel da orjer erTi da igive aqvT naTqvami? arc me da arc Cveni mosaxleoba mitingze dRes aRar
dadgeba am gatialebuli opoziciis gverdiT. yvelam erTnairad moiWra Tavi, qalbatonma
burjanaZemac, romelic sabolood damTavrda 26 maiss Tavis `krebianad~ da momxreebianad.
kai, batono, gasagebia, am
bodiSi da, JRvintian saakaSvils TvalSi eCxireba ivaniSvili, magram leiboristebs ra
bzikma ukbinaT, rom gamoxtebian da tlikineben. ver xedaven,
vin arian TviTon da vinaa biZina ivaniSvili?
lam vnaxeT, rac moxda. es ra
vnaxe, ra ambavi iyo, kaco.
_ preskonferenciaze?
_ diax, batono, diax. vin
iyvnen is xalxi, Jurnalistebi
erqvaT imaT? sad iyaviT, ratom ar CandiT, magaliTad,
Tqven, anda jaba xubua, sxva
patiosani Jurnalistebi?
_ batono leliko, Tqveni
azriT, ratom aRmoCnda zogierTi Jurnalisti im dRes ivaniSvilsa da xalxs Soris barieris, damabrkoleblis rol Si? ratom Cadgnen SuaSi,
Tqveni azriT?
_ imitom rom, mTavroba,
xelisufleba, parlamenti kargad xvdeba safrTxis seriozulobas, radgan maTi arsebobis
vada TandaTan iwureba. vinc im
dRes ivaniSvils Seupovrad
utevda, ase vTqvaT, yvela aris
gamZRari fuliT am xelisuflebisgan, zogi farulad, zogi _ aSkarad.
rom laparakobdnen, ivaniSvilma fuli ruseTSi iSova da
amitom ruseTis kaciao. fuli
taSkentSi rom eSova, biSkek-
yvavebis xrovas hgavdnen, romlebsac sadRac
sakbilo egulebodaT.
es igivea, cxens rom
ver miswvde da unagirs dauwyo cema. salanZRavi da jibrSi
Casadgomi saqarTveloSi cotaa?
rogorc
gavige,
ivaniSvili
apirebs
qarTul operas Zveli
dideba daubrunos. me
vici, rogor imarTeba
metropoliten-opera,
kovengardeni, la skala, imaT veravin daurekavs da ubrZanebs:
dRes es speqtakli gauSvi, xval _ meoreo.
robiko sturua Teatridan imitom daiTxoves, rom gza gaeTavisuflebinaT im idioturi `qeTo da kotesTvis~, romelsac me ukve
vuwode `qeTo da kutu~. vis
ra jandabad unda is uazroba,
repertuarSi yoveldRe miyolebiT rom aris Casmuli.
davaneboT Tavi sisuleeebs.
gamovfxizldeT da Cvens saqmes
mivxedoT. daanebon am e.w. opozicionerebma ivaniSvils Tavi,
nu aqvT kudi yavarze gadebuli, arafris maqnisi araa arc
erTi da nu iqaCebian. arasaparlamento da saparlamento
opozicia erTnairia TiTqmis
_`me TviTon~ Tu `Sen TviTon~, partiaa axla es? saxeli Seucvlia axlaxan, magram
es ar uSvelis magaT. TorTlaZe, rom aris kidev, es kacobis
anomalia, esa...
Saliko, valiko da
yvela gaCumdes da visac rogor SeuZlia,
ise dadges axla ivaniSvilis gverdiT, erTi saqmisTvis _ saqarTvelosTvis.
iranda kalandaZe
saerTo gazeTi 21
rogorc maxsovs, ufali fulSi
ki ar xedavs borotebas, aramed
fulis borotad gamoyenebaSi...
`ar dgas sakiTxi, saakaSvili Tu
ivaniSvili, es orive erTi mxarea
sxvadasxva pirovnebiT warmodgenili.
vimeoreb: pirovnulad ivaniSvilTan
araviTari pretenzia ar maqvs, piriqiT, mivesalmebi mis nabijs, Tumca
ver getyviT, icis Tu ara man, raSi
gayo Tavi. Tu icis (me mgonia icis!),
maSin es sxva salaparako Temaa... mTavaria, eri, qarTveloba mivxvdeT, ra
TamaSia, droSi ra movlenasTan
gvaqvs saqme, politikur avanscenaze
gamosuli yvela `mxsneli~ ratom
iTxovs Cvens mxardaWeras~, _ kiTxvas svams batoni akaki.
nuTu vinmes, sadme gaugonia an
unaxavs erTi kacis gaerTianeba? batoni akakic xom saqarTvelos mosaxleobis mxardaWeras iTxovs, Tanamoazreebs ikrebs, maS raSia saqme? garda amisa, Tu `esalmeba~
ivaniSvilis gamoCenas, iqve ratomRa `emSvidobeba?~
`fulze da erT fulian adamianze nu avagebT Cvens momavals!~ _
lozungiviT styorcna gazeTis
mkiTxvels batonma akakim.
momiteveT, Tu azrobriv wyobas
erTgvarad areulad iRebT, gormaxebian ukidegano iluziis velze
davqrivar baton akakisTan erTad,
jaZe, rom mis sagangebo yrilobas
`daamTxvia~ ivaniSvilma sakuTari
`politikuri vnebebis~ gamomzeureba da ratom ar unda CaTvalon,
rom piriqiT, jorjaZem daamTxvia
Tavisi yriloba swored rom sagangebod ivaniSvilis gamoCenas?
moqalaqeebs ainteresebT, 1 noembers, roca ivaniSvils preskonferencia hqonda daniSnuli, jorjaZem icoda amis Sesaxeb Tu ivaniSvilma icoda rom misi ganmaqiqebeli gazeTis specnomeri gamodioda 1-Si da specialurad daamTxvia?
moqalaqeebi kiTxvas svamen: _
jorjaZis gaerTianebas rom hkiTxo,
yvelafers daificeben, xelisuflebasTan ra kavSiri gvaqvso, magram
sakiTxi ase dgas, _ kavSiri gaqvs
Tu ara, arsebuli xelisuflebis
saqmes rom akeTeb, xom faqtia? SeiZleba, ar mogwondes viRac, am
SemTxvevaSi ivaniSvili, magram misi
`armowonebis~ gamo xelisuflebis
saqme unda akeTo?
`frontis~ wevrebi (maT krebazec daswrebuli var), ise nTqavdnen
batoni akakis yvela sityvas, vgoneb
transSi iyvnen Cavardnilebi...
vfiqrob, asec ar SeiZleba TanamoazreTa gameteba, codvani arian,
miTumetes, raionebidan Camovidnen,
gaisarjnen, daixarjnen...
maia WeliZe
Cemi azriT, quCaSi
gamosvlis logikuri
droa saparlamento
arCevnebi, Tu nacebi
ayalbeben da imarjveben, quCa
gardauvalia. oRond am quCas
keTriviT nu vuyurebT, quCac
demokratiis iseTive gamovlinebaa, rogoric parlamenti.
Tavs gvaxvevs nacistur-propagandistuli manqana, rom quCa
cudia da borotebaa. cudi quCa ki ar aris, aramed sisxlisRvra, romelic, SeiZleba, nacisturma reJimma moawyos!
me megona rom, sazogadoeba Seqmnil situacias sworad gamoiyenebda, wina wlebSi daSvebul Secdomebs gaaanalizebda da mis gamosworebas
Seecdeboda, nacvlad ki erTi
Tvea ukve imaze vdaobT, aqvs
nakli biZina ivaniSvils Tu
ara...
ciyvebiviT borbalSi vtrialebT da, rogorc vatyob, kidev didxans vitrialebT...
dRes momiyvnen erTi
saintereso ambavi qarTu bankTan ganviTarebul movlenebze.
vakis filialSi 2 dRis win
moxuci qalbatoni mdgara, viRac axalgazrda misula da
ukiTxavs _ qalbatono, ramiT
xom ar dagexmaroT, angariSis
gaxsna Tu gnebavT, dagexmarebiTo, qalbatonma upasuxa: – samwuxarod, fuli ar maqvs, Svilo, Torem Zalian minda angariSis gaxsnao, am axalzrdam
sakuTari jibidan dado fuli
da angariSi gauxsna ucnob
qalbatons `qarTu bankSi~. p.s.
es fanatizmi ar aris. es rwmenaa, rwmena ukeTesi momavlisa
– rwmena qarTuli ocnebis realobisa.
sayovelTao daumorCileblobis gamocxadeba upriani iqneboda
momxdari ubedurebis
momdevno dReebSi an 26 maiss
momxdar darbevis Semdgom, magram, roca qveyanaSi gamoCnda
miSas sapirwone Zala ivaniSvilis saxiT, romelmac Riad ganacxada araviTari mitingebi
xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad,
aramed mxolod arCevnebio, ratom apirebT areulobis Semotanas maSin, roca swored areuloba awyobs miSas da mis
xrovas, iqneb dafiqrdeT, rom
Tqven avtomaturad xdebiT iaraRi miSas xelSi, xalxis dasasjelad da miSas wisqvilze
wylis damsxmelad.
SemogvierTdi
ze
facebook-z
`saerTo gazeTi~
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ubralod, roca amboben, quCis saprotesto aqciebi ar gvindao, Zaan ucnauria.
demokratiuli brZola protestis mraval formas icnobs.
vinmes xom ar hgonia, rom parlamenti ufro mSvidobiania
vidre quCa? me ganaxebT ramdenime magaliTs, sadac kargad
Cans, rom rig SemTxvevaSi, parlamentSi ufro didi Setakebebi xdeba, vidre quCaSi
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akaki jorjaZe _ 62% :-)
Temur iakobaSvilma
Tqva„samoqalaqo sazogadoeba dRes ufro sustia, vidre igi
revoluciamde iyoo“, mgoni,
nela-nela esec ipareba miSas
navidan! :)))))
Tu xedav, rom adamianSi yvelaferi adamianuri
pirutyvma
Cakla da mxolod pirutyvuli instinqtebiT cxovrobs. mxolod Wama-moneleba
ainteresebs da ar aRelvebs ra
fasad da visi. mxolod pirutyvuli vnebebiT cxovrobs, sadac moundeba da visTanac moundeba..dorbli da cingli erTnairad gasdis... aseTi adamianisadmi ra grZnoba unda gagiCndeT qarTvelebo, qristianebo..unda SegezizRoT Tu unda
SegecodoT? (miTumetes Tu
dafiqrdebiT ratom gaxda is
aseTi an rogor moxvda iq sadac aris). Tqveni azri maintersebs: zizRi Tu sibraluli?
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asania...); 3. radikaluri
opozicia (burjanaZe, gaCeCilaZe, sanikiZe...) _
0,4%; 4. naTelaSvili Salva _ 1%;; 5. opoziciuri inteligencia (gafrindaSvili, CxartiSvili, xaWapuriZe) 6. ivaniSvil-ivanaSvili an misi partiagaerTianeba _ 17%; 7. akaki jorjaZe _ 62%; 8. aravis _ 10%
martivi gamoTvlaa, ra procentebic darCa, gadaanawileT maTze,
romelTac procentebi ar mivuwere,
_ mapatieT da, e.w sociologiuri
kvleviT miRebulma procentebma ise
gamaognes, im pawawunebs veRar `CavuRrmavdi.~
faqtia, baton akakis xelT upyria ori kviris manZilze gamokiTxvaSi monawileTa mier Sevsebuli
blankebi, magram vin arian gamokiTxulebi? _ 62%-is Semxedvares
iseTi azri gamiCnda, rom isini batoni akakis gaerTianebis wevrebis
axlobel-naTesavebi unda iyvnen. Cemi saqmianobidan gamomdinare yvelanair socialur jgufTan Tu calkeul pirTan miwevs urTierToba, _
ra vqna, Tuki udides umravlesobas, araTu xsenebuli sazogadoebriv-politikuri organizacia, baton akakis pirovnebis Sesaxeb ar
smeniaT araferi...
rogorc ityvian, `es maTi problemaa~, magram 1 noembrs specialurad gamocemuli (aseTi warwera
aqvs) `sityva~ #7 rom wavikiTxe,
pirskata meca, _ batoni akaki ucnaurad akavSirebs erTmaneTTan sakuTar misias da qarTveli eris arCevans: fuli Tu ufali?
`fizikurad Seiqmna piroba, TiTqos `iqiT~ pirispir dadgnen saakaSvili da ivaniSvili, da TiTqos
maT Soris unda gakeTdes arCevani,
ase xdeba am Temis `aJitireba~; magram, sinamdvileSi ers, qveyanas,
nacionali vaiJurnalistebis sawyalobeli
RavRavisa
da
wkmutunis fonze ra
adamianurad da bunebrivad gaisma ivaniSvilis Rimilnarevi,
laRi fraza tripolskis mimarT: ”e, biWo, Sen mainc gaCerdi, ra!” es epizodi arasodes
damaviwydeba.
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fuli Tu `ufali~,
saxelad akaki?!
xalxis azriT
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miTumetes, rom batoni akaki flobs saidumlos, xsnis ra gzas davadgeT, magram ar amxels...
baton akakis ar emeteba pativcemuli ivaniSvili (b-iZina!) SarSi
gasaxvevad da gasawirad, miTumetes,
rom icis, igi ar aris mxsneli.
`mdidars~ gadasawyveti hqonia, dadges xalxTan Tu xalxi miixmos da
ultilatumis stilSi arCevanis
saSualeba misces, uTxras: memsaxureT, qveyana CamabareT da safasurs
miiRebT.
`drois moTxovna aseTia: yovel
`savles~ SeuZlia iqces `pavled~;
`erovnuli frontis~ kari Riaa
yvelasTvis! ras izams batoni biZina?... _ vfiqrob, safiqrali masala
miveciT, Tu waikiTxa man guldasmiT Cveni gazeTi Tavisi `mrCevelebisgan~ ganmartoebiT.~
amgvari msjeloba dapatiJebas
unda waagavdes, ara? _ magram aqve
gvaxsenebs batoni akaki, rom biZina
ivaniSvili patarkaciSvili _ kvantriSvilis duetis bania, `trios~
wevri da kidev erTxel gvafrTxilebs, ar gavcvaloT samSoblo
fulze. amas isev is mosdevs, rom
araferi iqneboda ufulo ivaniSvili da, rom `erovnuli frontis~
kari Riaa yvelasTvis da yvelas
yvelafrad gadaqceva SeuZlia.
ra Tqma unda, yvelas SeuZlia
ganicados metamorfoza da sxvaTaSoris, `erovnuli frontis~ karSi
Seusvleladac...
arian adamianebi, Cveni sazogadoebis wevrebi, romlebic interesdebian, ratom ambobs batoni jor-
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qarTvelobas asarCevi gvaqvs ufro
didi, ufro mniSvnelovani: fuli,
Tu ufali?~
gasagebia, rom fulSi ivaniSvil;i igulisxmeba, magram vin aris
Sefaruli uflis saxelqveS, vin
moiazreba uflis sityvis momtanad? _ patriarqi rom ar igulisxmeba, cxadia, samoqalaqo-politikur sarbielzea saubari.
batoni akaki brZanebs, maisis
bolos gancdili marcxis Semdeg
da manamdec, gvpirdebodnen seqtemberSi gamoCenas, moalparakebebic
maSin ganvaaxloTo, magram saerTod
gaqra asparezidan `radikaluri
opozicia~,
politikuri
arena
mTlianad mosufTavdao. oqtombrisTvis, roca ukan movbrundi (uarvhyavi Cemi naTqvami `davamTavre~ da
sofelSi wavedi) da mzad viyaviT eri arCevanisTvis, sagangebo yrilobac davniSneT,
ivaniSvilic gamovida brZolis asparezzeo, _ ras niSnavs es ganacxadi, ivaniSvili
anu fuli daupirispirda
jorjaZes, anu ufals? _ sxva
araferi ikiTxeba amaSi...
`pirdapir, SiSvlad gamoCnda miliardeli, dRemde
xalxSi mxolod mecenatad
cnobili pirovneba sakmaod
Tamami, ambiciuri gancxadebebiT da daisva sakiTxi: an saakaSvili da misi reJimi, an
erTi ivaniSvili, romelic ambobs: CemTan modiT, me gadagarCenT! _ satyuara am dros,
ra Tqma unda, fulia!~
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oriode dRis win veris baRSi
sazogadoebriv-politikuri gaerTianeba `sruliad saqarTvelos xsnis
erovnuli frontis~ riggareSe sagangebo yrilobaze gaxldiT miwveuli, sadac `frontis~ mier Catarebuli sociologiuri gamokiTxvis Sedegebi gvamcnes.
kiTxva: _ vis airCevdiT winamZRolad, vis andobT qveynis marTvis arsebuli sistemis da xelisuflebis axliT Secvlas; Tu,
darCes arsebuli sistema am xelisuflebiT?
gamokiTxvis Sedegebi
ase gadanawilda: _ 1. saxelisuflebo (saakaSvili, bokeria, ugulava...) _
7%; 2. saxelisuflebo
opozicia (TargamaZe, al-
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#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
22 saerTo gazeTi
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
`am reJimis winaaRmdeg
brZolas viwyebT ara civi
iaraRiT, aramed ufro Zlieri
iaraRiT _ gonebiT, guliT,
saqmiT~ _ mimarTa filarmoniaSi
sagangebod
Sekrebil
xalxs nana guluam..
qalbatoni nana ruseTSi
moRvawe biznesmenis mindia guluas daa. Tavad mindia saqarTveloSi ramdenime Tvis win
Camovida, Tumca aeroportSi
daakaves da samSobloSi dabrunebis saSualeba ar misces.
ruseTidan daxmarebis uflebac
CamoarTves: 100 mln.-ian investiciaze, rasac gulua soflis
meurneobis aRorZinebaSi abandebda, saakaSvilis xelisuflebam uari Tqva.
sxvaTa Soris, gulua ruseTSi dafrTianebuli zogierTi biznesmenisgan imiTac gamoirCeva, rom samSobloSi Camosvlisa da dabrunebis survili
gauCnda.
Tavad fesvebs mowyvetili
Tanamemamuleebis nugeSi Seiqna
da moskovSi qarTul saTvistomo `iberias~ Caudga saTaveSi. uSurvelad patronobda,
materialurad exmareboda TiToeul qarTvels. axla saakaSvilis Cinovnikebisagan uflebaayrili, konkretuli mizezis
gareSe moqalaqeobaCamorTmeuli, mainc ar kargavs imeds.
saqarTveloSi ki mindia
guluas dawyebul saqmes misi
da-nana gulua Caudgeba saTaveSi. ai, am axali saqmis irgvliv iyo ramdenime dRis win
filarmoniisTvisac ki uCveulo xalxmravloba. qarTveloba `ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~
imediT Seikriba.
foieSi Jurnalistebi gadigamodiodnen, e.w. cnobad saxeebs eZebdnen. sanam media `sakbilos~ dasdevda, Sexvedris
maspinZels Tadarigi daeWira
da iqve buterbrodebiT, namcxvriT, tkbileuliT, gaziani
sasmeliT eloda mozRvavebul
xalxs.
am tkivilgamovlil xalxsac
miaqcies yuradReba-meTqi, gavifiqre. Sexvedra dima jaianma
gaxsna. is iyo am krebis konferansie.
dima jaiani, msaxiobi
`saerTo saxalxo winaaRmdegobis moZraobis~ warmomadgeneli:
_ `Cqimi jima, cota gviWirs, magram mainc davbrundebiT~ _ jansuR Carkvianis leqsiT gaamxneva stumrebi.
poetma erekle saRlianma rusofobiis winaaRmdegac
isaubra da SeniSna, ruseTSi
moRvawe qarTveli biznesmenebis araerovnulobaSi dadanaSauleba, iseTive sibece iqneboda, Tavis droze iliasTvisac Tergdaleuloba gvesayvedurao. `politikaSi avtoritets ar warmovadgen. Tumca
mainc vityvi, dRes, yvela resursi unda SevkriboT saqarTvelosTvis. mivesalmebi nana
guluas partiis dafuZnebas,
aseve mivesalmebi batoni biZinas politikaSi mosvlas. amasac vityvi, mtrebis survilis
miuxedavad, im daxmarebebis da
`grantebis~ miuxedavad, rasac
e.w. `prezentacia~, (rogorc
am bolo dros partiebis dafuZnebas vuwodebT,) `xorumiT~
gaixsna. qarTul cekvas himni
mohyva. himns simRera `qristeSobaze~, rac ansambl `TuTarCelas~ gogonebma imdenad
mSobliurad, imdenad emociurad damuxtulebma Seasrules,
isedac erTi ideiT _ `saqarTvelos ganaxlebiT~ Sekrebilebs qarTuli ZarRvi kidev
erTxel samSoblos gancdiT
SeutokdebodaT. piradad Cemze
darbazSi Cemi kuTxis xalxismegrelebis saubaric moqmedebda emociurad (imedia, qsenofobiad ar CameTvleba) rogorc
gairkva, organizatorebs afxazeTidan devnilebisTvisac moeyaraT Tavi. bolos da bolos,
gvawvdian, yvelam icodes, samSoblos ver Cagvadebineben. saqarTvelos ar gavyidiT~
reJisori levan anjafariZe:: _ `sakuTar Tavs da
Tqven, qarTvelebo, gilocavT
iseTi partiis Camoyalibebas,
romelic sabolood daZravs am
gayinul realobas. `ganaxlebuli saqarTvelo~ TiToeuli
qarTvelis xsna da imedi iqneba. dReis amas iqeT, aRarasodes vnaxav Cems xalxs damfrTxalsa da SeSinebuls. saqarTvelos namdvilad sWirdeba
ganaxleba~
reJisorma partiis simbolikazec isaubra da SeniSna:
alamze gamosaxul ferebs rac
Seexeba: TeTri-sispetakis, zneobis, lurji-Cveni Savi zRvis,
mi saqarTvelo da miviRe qveynis gadarCenisaTvis sapasuxismgeblo gadawyvetileba.
Rrmad mwams, Cven erTad metis gakeTeba SegviZlia. zogierTebs hgoniaT, rom saqarTvelos ayvavebas mxolod turizmis ganviTareba uSvelis. soflis meurneobis aRorZinebaSia
saqarTvelos xsna, rwmenadabrunebuli mSromeli kacia Cveni imedi.
da ZmisTvisao, orive
ki `ganaxlebuli
saqarTvelosTvis~
xolo oqrosferi- im teritoriebis simbolod SeirCa, rasac jerjerobiT ver vakontrolebT. Tumca maT dakargvas
verafriT SeveguebiTo. `TiToeuli Tqvengani uzomod miyvarxarT~ _ saubris bolos gamogvicxada wuTis win `gapolitikosebulma~ reJisorma.
simbolikis ganmartebis mere, Sexvedra isev klasikur,
oRond ukve moWarbebulad
zeoficialur stilSi gagrZelda. Cans, maspinZlebs undodaT sakuTar gulwrfelobaSi
stumrebic daerwmunebinaT da
partiis programa, wesdeba, delegatTa sia, ase gansajeT,
`ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~
wevrebis kenWisyra sul `patakiT~ Cagvabares. roca jeri
gamgeobis wevrTa arCevaze midga, 5 piris SemadgenlobiT vakompleqtebTo, darbazis ukana
rigebidan TiTqos erTdroulad ixuvles- xuTi ar varga,
xuTi cudi ricxviao. maSin
yrilobis Tavmjdomare valeri
gabeliam `eqspromtad~ Seageba
winadadeba-kargi, problema ar
aris, Svidkaciani iyos gamgeobao. hoda, axali wevrebis wardgenac aucilebeli Seiqna.
darbazma myisierad moifiqra
kandidatebi: irakli qardava
da giorgi vaniSvili. valeri
gabeliam vaniSvilis nacvlad,
ivaniSvili gamoacxada. -ivaniSvilic kargi iqneboda-enamoswrebulad ixumra viRacam darbazidan.
bolos da bolos, partiis
Tavmjdomarec wargvidgines.
axalgazrda, energiuli qalbatoni swrafad gamoCnda darbazSi da emociurad damuxtuli sityva Seageba stumrebs.
nana gulua:: `ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~ Tavmjdomare:
_ `var qarTveli deda, qarTveli mecnieri. es regaliebic
ki Cemi samSoblos gadarCenisTvis sakmarisi ar aRmoCnda.
kidev ufro metad miyvars Ce-
bednieri var, radgan soxumSi vcxovrobdi da vswavlobdi, Tumca meore mxriv,
ubedurebaa, roca iq Casvlis
ufleba dakarguli gvaqvs,
mjera- droebiT.
saqarTveloSi erTi ubedureba ar gvakmares. samjer da
mravaljer devnilebi xdebian
Cveni Tanamoqalaqeebi. visac ar
geSiniaT, visac Cemebr da Cemze metad uyvars samSoblo,
imaT
gasagonad
vacxadebviwyebT brZolas qveynis gaTavisuflebisaTvis.
TiToeuli mimarTulebiT
gvaqvs konkretuli gegmebi,
konkretuli ideebi. dafinansebasTan dakavSirebiTac gansakuTrebuli idea. amitom Zalian gTxovT moviTminoT.
Cemi Zma aris Cemi Zma, nana
guluas Zma da is CemTan erTad
aris, rogorc Zma. Tqven rogor ggoniaT, me, SeiZleba myavdes iseTi Zma, romelic ar
mexmareba?~_
guram
fircxalava::
msaxiobi `saxalxo krebis~
warmomadgeneli da `winaaRmdegobis moZraobis~ wevri:
_ `kidev erTi axali partia Seiqmna, Seiqmna qveynisTvis, rom bolos da bolos,
gveSvelos.
mivesalmebi yvela partias,
romelic cotaTi, Tu bevrad
win waswevs Cvens saqmes. nana
guluam Tqva, davibrunoT Cveni samSoblo afxazeTio da si-
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.net
ze
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-z
marTle giTxraT, cremlebi wamomcvivda. ratom unda viyoT
Cven usamSoblod? Tanac daumata: samjer devnilebad gadagvaqcieso, esec gulze momxvda,
ase ar unda xdebodes saqarTveloSi. gaumarjos am partias~
valeri gabelia:
_
loialuri da liberaluri mimarTulebis partia viqnebiT.
ar aris gamoricxuli biZina
ivaniSvilTanac viTanamSromloT, radgan mis partias didi
avtoriteti aqvs saqarTveloSi. yvela WeSmarit opoziciur
ZalasTan
viTanamSromlebT,
oRond fsevdoopoziciasTan _
vera. sxvaTa Soris, ivaniSvilis partiis rigebidan bevri
Cven SemogvierTda. amboben-aq
ufro fasobs Tavisufali
sityva da moqmedebis Tavisuflebac metiao.
_ ra formiT iqneba mindia
gulua am partiaSi CarTuli?_
_ batoni mindia jerjerobiT absoluturad ar aris
CarTuli am partiis saqmianobaSi, arc vici, ras izams momavalSi. partias uSualod
uxelmZRvanelebs misi da, nana
gulua. marTalia, igi politikaSi pirvel nabijebs dgams,
Tumca sakmaod warmatebuli
mecnieria. qalbaton nanas didi
avtoriteti aqvs TanamemamuleebSi. bevri saqvelmoqmedo saqme gaukeTebia._
_ dRevandel Sekrebaze
Warbad iyo afxazeTis Tema,
gaCnda imedi-bbolos da bolos,
devnilebis problemebiTac dainteresdeba vinme?
_mindia gulua saqarTvelos teritoriuli mTlianobis dacvisaTvis ibrZoda afxazeTSi, mravaljer iyo daWrili, mainc gadarCa RvTis nebiT
da devnilis statusiT wavida
ruseTSi.
axla moqalaqeobis problema aqvs saqarTveloSi. Cven
da CvenTan erTad sruliad
saqarTvelos unda misi Camosvla, rom sakuTari SromiT da
ofliT naRvawi daabandos samSobloSi. misi survilia, am
metad mZime yofierebaSi daexmaros da gverdSi daudges
qarTvel ers .
jerjerobiT mindia gulua
am partias ar afinansebs.
moqalaqeobasac miaRwevs.
amisTvis ukve daiwyo brZola.
Tu mieca saSualeba, saqarTveloSi Camova da aucileblad ibrZolebs qveynis ukeTesi momavlisTvis. ra Tqma unda,
pirvel
rigSi
devnilebis
problemebs moagvarebs, aseve
prioritetuli iqneba misTvis
soflis meurneobis aRorZineba.
naTia nodia
saerTo gazeTi 23
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
`saerTo gazeTis~ iuridiuli konsultacia
xalxis azriT
am bolo periodSi ismis braldeba, rom ivaniSvilma saqarTvelos
omis dawyeba daabrala
preskonferenciaze. sainteresoa
isic, rom arcerTi mxare ar daakvirda im terminologias, rac
ivaniSvilma gamoiyena. sxva politikosebisgan gansxvavebiT,
ivaniSvilma Tqva “2008 wlis
saomari moqmedebebi” es ki ukve
gamoricxavs omis dawyebas, radgan saomari moqmedebebi adre
dawyebuli omis gagrZelebaa.
nodiac ki prognozebiT gamodis momavali
xelisuflebis personalur Semadgenlobaze
da pirveli SemTxvevaa, mgoni,
rom veTanxmebi: prezidenti –
alasania, parlamentis Tavmjdomare – usufaSvili, premieri
ivaniSvili. zogma eqspertma
mTavrobis personalur Semadgenlobaze daiwyo saubari. Zalianac kargi. nodias Sesavalma gamacina:”albaToba, rom isini
xelisuflebaSi movlen, ar aris
maRali, magram varaudebi SeiZleba gamovTqvaT” :)
miSam mixalkovis qaliSvilis qorwilSi
misvliT da rusuli
romansebis tkbobiT ra
,,satopke” augdo Salvas dardubalasTvis! ise, kalmaxeliZe
rom mivaTxovoT Jirinovskis?
xom xdeboda xolme aseTi politikuri qorwinebebi? daTboba
da Tvalebidan gadmoRvrili
`Cuvstvebi” mere naxeT:)).
miSas preskonferencia
bunebaSi ar arsebobs.
SevardnaZis tradiciuli
yovelkvireuli
preskonferenciebis Semdeg saqarTvelos prezidents, realurad, preskonferencia ar hqonia.
miSas uyvars monologebi, roca
kiTxvas aravin usvams da rasac
unda, imas laparakobs - TavisTvis mierekeba. an uaresi - uyvars
davarcxnili, „Cawyobili“ brifingebi, sadac win mxolod misi
rCeuli sami televiziis daqoqili saTamaSo uzis, Tvalebs ufaxulebs da winaswar Camoweril,
aTasjer SeTanxmebul kiTxvebs
usvams. miSa aseTia.
xolo biZina - kaci, romelic aqamde ar Canda da misi
personis Sesaxeb TiTqmis arafe-
ri vicodiT, gacilebiT komunikabeluri da Ria aRmoCnda, vidre warmogvedgina. koiotebma
amiT borotad isargebles...
saocreba iciT, raSia?am aramzadebma imdens miaRwies, miliarders xalxi iqiT uxdis fuls!:)))eseTi ram kacobriobis istorias ar axsovs,
swored amas hqvia borotebis
siyvaruliT damarcxeba!!!
erTaderTi qveyana varT msoflioSi, sadac
cirki araa ukve 3 welia. arada, ramdeni
masxara gamoCnda... am xalxs dasaqmeba ar unda? amxela auditoria, msoflios arc erT
cirks ar Rirsebia arasodes !!!
20 welia msoflio Cvens cirks
uyurebs, Tavisi uTvalavi klounebiT !!! garedan vinc uyurebs,
ecinebaT, Signidan vinc vuyurebT _ ara.
nacebis kvnesa vnaxe da
magaTi Tvalis dafsoba, mTel saqarTvelos
ahkides politikuri
yabzoba.
am saakaSvilis naxmar
lamazmanebs raRa eSvelebaT, neta, upatronod rom rCebian. miSa
rom qalTan gulaobs da mere
Tavis naTrev qals xelisuflebaSi myof Cinovniks gaatans colad, Turme es vaJkacoba yofila da ruseTTan dialogi _ jaSuSoba.
ra vqna, vaRiareb:
saakaSvils da mis
satanur garemocvas me verasodes
Seviyvareb da aqedan gamomdinare, verc verasodes vapatieb saqarTvelos gapartaxebas da
qarTveli xalxis gabaxebas!!! rom vapatio, aba, miTxariT, ra formiT?!!
me ar mainteresebs
lirika da niuansebi!!!!!!! xelisuflebam
unda daiklos fufuneba da mixedos xalxs!!! egre
gagrZeleba
SeuZlebelia!!!!
xalxs ara aqvs elementaruli
saSualeba kvebis, wamlis, cxovrebis!!!!!da CemTvis gaugebaria,
SemogvierTdi
ze
facebook-z
`saerTo gazeTi~
`saerTo gazeTis~ mkiTxvelTa
SekiTxvebs pasuxobs gazeTis
iuridiuli konsultanti, advokati
mTvarisa
kevliSvili.
tel.: 2 79 63 91;
8 790 60 64 69;
5 93 78 64 69
* * *
_ ra aris saxelmwifo baJi?
alimentis Sesaxeb sarCeli
Segvaqvs sasamarTloSi. ra raodenobis baJi unda gadavixadoT?
_ saxelmwifo baJi es aris
saxelmwifos mier dadgenili
specialuri gadasaxadi, romelic gadaixdevineba moqalaqeTa
mier sasamarTloSi Setanil
sarCelebsa da gancxadebebze da
romlis odenobac gansxvavdeba
imis mixdviT, Tu vin mimarTavs
sasamarTlos da ras iTxovs.
mosarCeleebi alimentis gadaxdevinebis sarCelebze saxelmwifo biujetis sasargeblod sasamarTlo xarjebis gadasaxadisagan Tavisufldebian,
samoqalaqo
saproceso
kodeqsis 46-e muxlis I
nawilis `a~ qvepunqtis
Sesabamisad.
aqedan
gamomdinare,
Tqven alimentis gadaxdevinebis sarCelTan dakavSirebiT saxelmwifo baJs
ar gadaixdiT.
* * *
_ ra SemTxvevebSi xdeba sasamarTlo xarjebis gadaxdisagan
gaTavisufleba?
_ saxelmwifo biujetis sasargeblod sasamarTlo, xarjebis gadaxdisagan Tavisufldebian:
a) mosarCeleebi _ alimentis
gadaxdevinebis sarCelebze.
b) mosarCeleebi-dasaxiCrebiT an janmrTelobis sxva dazianebiT, agreTve, marCenalis sikvdiliT
miyenebuli
zianis
anazRaurebis sarCelebze;
g) mosarCeleebi-danaSauliT
miyenebuli materialuri zaralis anazRaurebis sarCelebze.
d) mxareebi _ ukanono msjavrdebis, sisxlis samarTlis pasuxisgebaSi ukanonod micemis,
aRkveTis RonisZiebad dapatimrebis ukanonod gamoyenebis an gamasworebel samuSaoTa saxiT
adinistraciuli saxdelis ukanonod dadebis Sedegad moqalaqisaTvis miyenebuli zaralis
anazRaurebasTan dakavSirebul
sarCelebze;
e) mosarCeleebi _ arasrulwlovanTa uflebebis darRvevasTan dakavSirebul sarCelebze.
v) mxareebi, romlebic dadgenili wesiT registrirebuli
arian socialurad daucveli
ojaxebis monacemTa erTian bazaSi da iReben saarsebo Semweobas,
rac dasturdeba Sesabamisi dokumentaciiT:
z) mxareebi _ winaswari (Sualeduri) gadawyvetilebis saapelacio an sakasacio wesebiT
gasaCivrebisas.
kanoniT SeiZleba gaTvaliswinebul iqnes saxelmwifo biujetis sasargeblod sasamarTlo
xarjebis gadaxdisagan mxareTa
gaTavisuflebis sxva SemTxvevebic.
* * *
_ ganqorwinebis saqmis ganxilvisas dRevandeli samoqalaqo kanonmdebloba kvlav iTvaliswinebs Tu ara meuRleTa Sesarigeblad vadis daniSvnas?
_ iTvaliswinebs.
ganqorwinebis saqmis ganxilvisas sasamarTlo iRebs garkveul zomebs meuRleTa Sesarigeblad. mas aqvs ufleba gadados
saqmis ganxilva da meuRleebs
Sesarigeblad dauniSnos vada,
romelic ar unda aRematebodes
6 Tves. Tuki sasamarTlo daadgens, rom, miuxedavad am zomebisa, meuRleTa Semdgomi Tanacxovreba da ojaxis SenarCuneba SeuZlebelia, maSin igi iRebs
gadawyvetilebas ganqorwinebis
Sesaxeb.
* * *
_ samoqalaqo saqmis ganxilvisas visgan SeiZleba axna-gganmartebis
miReba?
_ ar SeiZleba axsna-ganmartebis
miReba.
a) iseTi pirebisagan, romlebsac
Tavisi fizikuri naklis an fsiqikuri aSlilobis gamo ar SeuZlia
sworad aRiqvas faqtebi da misces
maT Sesaxeb swori Cveneba;
b) sasuliero pirisa an iseT
garemoebaTa Sesaxeb, romlebic maT
gaandves aRsarebis dros.
g) Tanamdebobis pirisagan iseT
garemoebebze, romelTa Sesaxeb saidumloebis dacvac mis samsaxurebriv movaleobaSi Sedis, Tu igi gaTavisuflebuli ar aris aseTi saidumloebis dacvisagan.
* * *
_ samoqalaqo kanonmdeblobiT,
aRiareba iTvleba Tu ara sakmaris
mtkicebulebad? ras gvetyviT, zogadad, am mtkicebulebis Sesaxeb?
_ erTi mxaris mier iseTi garemoebis arsebobis an ararsebobis dadastureba (aRiareba), romelzedac
meore mxare amyarebs Tavis moTxovnebsa Tu Sesagebels, sasamarTlom
SeiZleba sakmaris mtkicebulebad
CaTvalos da safuZvlad daudos sasamarTlo gadawyvetilebas.
saqmisaTvis mniSvnelobis mqone
garemoebis arsebobis an ararsebobis
aRiareba mxares SeuZlia rogorc
zepiri, ise werilobiTi formiT,
saqmis winaswari sasamarTlo gan-
xilvisaTvis momzadebis an am saqmis
sasamarTlo sxdomaze ganxilvis
dros. Tu aRiareba warmodgenilia
werilobiTi formiT, igi daerTvis
saqmes. zepirad gakeTebuli aRiareba Seitaneba sasamarTlo xdomis
oqmSi.
mxares SeuZlia, sasamarTlos
mier gadawyvetilebis gamotanamde
gaaqarwylos (uaryos) Tavisi aRiareba, Tu daamtkicebs, rom es aRiareba iyo Secdomis Sedegi da ganpirobebuli iyo iseTi garemoebiT,
romelic cnobili gaxda misTvis
aRiarebis Semdeg, anda masze fsiqikuri Tu fizikuri zemoqmedebiT,
romelic gamoricxavda mis Tavisufal nebas.
aRiarebis uaryofa sasamarTlom
unda daasabuTos Tavis gadawyvetilebaSi.
* * *
_ dedam anderZiT damitova qoneba. gardacvlili myavs da, romelsac darCa ori qaliSvili,
SeuZliaT Tu ara Cems disSvilebs Semomedavon qonebis
miRebisas.
_ SeuZliaT.
_ Tqven da Tqveni da iTvlebodiT dedaTqvenis I rigiT memkvidreebad. Tqveni da
gardacvlilia. misi wamomadgenlebi arian disSvilebi. vinaidan, saxeze gvaqvs anderZiT
memkvidreoba da ara kanonismieri, Tqvens disSvilebs SeuZliaT moiTxovon dedamisis,
rogorc I rigis memkvidris
savaldebulo wili. Tqveni da
rom cocxali yofiliyo, is
miiRebda qonebis naxevris naxevars.
am naxevris naxevarze (savaldebulo
wili) pretenzia rom gauCndeT
Tqvens disSvilebs, nu gagikvirdebaT. kanoni maT amis uflebas aZlevs.
* * *
_ rogor xdeba pensiis daniSvna?
_ socialuri dazvevis erTian
saxelmwifo fondSi, Tqveni gancxadebis safuZvelze, kompensaciis an
saxelmwifo akademiuri stipendiis
daniSvna moxdeba gancxadebis wardgenis dRidan.
marCenalis gardacvalebis gamo,
kompensacia iniSneba marCenalis gardacvalebis dRidan, Tu gancxadeba
kompetentur organoSi wardgenili
iqneba gardacvalebidan 3 Tvis vadaSi. am vadis gasvlis SemTxvevaSi,
kompensacia iniSneba gancxadebis
wardgenis dRidan.
* * *
_ mamaCemi brmaa. apirebs anderZis daweras rogori moxdeba es?
SeiZleba Tu ara anderZi Sinauruli formiT daiweros?
_ Tu moanderZe brmaa (an wera-kiTxvis ucodinari), anderZi
unda Sedges notariusTan sami
mowmis TandaswrebiT, ris Sesaxeb unda gakeTdes saTanado Canaweri, romelic waekiTxeba moanderZes. am dros ar SeiZleba
anderZis Camweri da misi wamkiTxveli erTi da igive piri
iyosCanawerSi aucileblad unda
iqnas miTiTebuli, Tu vin gaakeTa Canaweri da vin waukiTxa moanderZes. Canawers xeli unda
moaweron mowmeebma da daadasturos notariusma.
aqedan gamomdinare, brma pirovnebis (an wera-kiTxis ucodinari)
mier anderZis Sinauruli formiT
dawera kategoriulad gamoiricxeba.
CMYK
24 saerTo gazeTi
#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
saTavo ofisi
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